"Colin Rosenstiel" wrote in message
...
In article ,
(Paul Scott) wrote:

"Paul Scott" wrote in message
...

"asdf" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 12 Jan 2008 20:09:39 -0000, Paul Scott wrote:

Note, incidentally, that if you're commuting from Cambridge to the
City of London (and don't fancy the Liverpool Street line) then you
can use a Cambridge - London Terminals ticket on the underground
between King's Cross and Moorgate.

Not according to the current Fares Manual (Section A Page A4), there

is an exclusion for journey's beyond St Pancras from the north (or
City Thameslink from the south). In other words Moorgate is only a
London Terminal via Finsbury Park.

You are mistaken, mainly because Cambridge is on the GN route (out
of KX), not the TL route (out of St Pancras). The PP is correct
(see page L5).

How do you get from Kings Cross to Moorgate by train then?

I see - (should have checked L5 first!) - it's weird isn't it - I
assume this has something to do with the history of Moorgate as a
former underground station (GN&C), and/or the fact that the
'replacement' main line trains don't run late evening and weekends,
so the underground is ok in lieu?

Nowt to do with the GN&C I expect, but a relic of the City Widened Lines
which provided direct services from the GN to Moorgate (Met) until the
1970s.

Good point Colin - if this really does date from that service change, I
wonder if this 'special case' will also come to an end following the short
(3 year IIRC) transition period when pax on the Thameslink branch to
Moorgate will be able to carry on using NR tickets, after closure in
December 2008. It would seem unfair to them (Thameslink) otherwise...

Paul

In article ,
(Paul Scott) wrote:

"Colin Rosenstiel" wrote in message
...
In article ,
(Paul Scott) wrote:

I see - (should have checked L5 first!) - it's weird isn't it - I
assume this has something to do with the history of Moorgate as a
former underground station (GN&C), and/or the fact that the
'replacement' main line trains don't run late evening and weekends,
so the underground is ok in lieu?

Nowt to do with the GN&C I expect, but a relic of the City Widened
Lines which provided direct services from the GN to Moorgate (Met)
until the 1970s.

Good point Colin - if this really does date from that service
change, I wonder if this 'special case' will also come to an end
following the short (3 year IIRC) transition period when pax on the
Thameslink branch to Moorgate will be able to carry on using NR
tickets, after closure in December 2008. It would seem unfair to
them (Thameslink) otherwise...

Has that limitation been announced as part of the Thameslink programme?
Things already appear to be somewhat different on BedPan from the GN.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On Jan 12, 8:37 pm, (Colin Rosenstiel) wrote:
In article
,

(Paul Oter) wrote:
The gates at King's Cross Underground (especially the ones in the
Western Ticket Hall) are notoriously bad at accepting paper tickets.
Many of them will only take the ticket is you push it in quite hard,
others refuse to accept it altogether. I have got into the habit of
identifying a particular gate that seems to work properly and using
it each day, though even that doesn't always work.

I'm surprised to see you write that. I never have problems with paper
tickets coming out of the Victoria or Piccadilly Lines and heading for
King's Cross. All on day tickets, though.

As I mentioned, the problem is mainly in the western ticket hall,
(which I use every weekday morning) as can be seen by the number of
card slots that have tape over them. However the absence of tape
doesn't guarantee that the card slot will work. Others have complained
about this on uk.railway and uk.transport.london over the past year or
so.

It's not so bad in the tube ticket hall (which I use every weekday
evening) though I have certainly had problems there as well.

PaulO

On 12 Jan, 23:38, (Colin Rosenstiel) wrote:
Nowt to do with the GN&C I expect, but a relic of the City Widened Lines
which provided direct services from the GN to Moorgate (Met) until the
1970s.

But the rule is clearly designed to substitute for the Northern City
service, given the only intermediate stations allowed are Old Street
and Highbury & Islington.

U

--
http://londonconnections.blogspot.com/
A blog about transport projects in London

On Jan 12, 10:21 pm, "Paul Scott"
wrote:
"Paul Scott" wrote in message

...





"asdf" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 12 Jan 2008 20:09:39 -0000, Paul Scott wrote:

Note, incidentally, that if you're commuting from Cambridge to the
City of London (and don't fancy the Liverpool Street line) then you
can use a Cambridge - London Terminals ticket on the underground
between King's Cross and Moorgate.

Not according to the current Fares Manual (Section A Page A4), there is
an
exclusion for journey's beyond St Pancras from the north (or City
Thameslink
from the south). In other words Moorgate is only a London Terminal via
Finsbury Park.

You are mistaken, mainly because Cambridge is on the GN route (out of
KX), not the TL route (out of St Pancras). The PP is correct (see page
L5).

How do you get from Kings Cross to Moorgate by train then?

I see - (should have checked L5 first!) - it's weird isn't it - I assume
this has something to do with the history of Moorgate as a former
underground station (GN&C), and/or the fact that the 'replacement' main line
trains don't run late evening and weekends, so the underground is ok in
lieu?

I first heard about this in the leaflet that WAGN gave me when I first
bought a season ticket a few years ago, and subsequently confirmed it
in the National Fares Manual.

I, too, think it's something to do with Finsbury Park - Moorgate not
operating late evenings and at weekends.

PaulO

In article
,
(Paul Oter) wrote:

As I mentioned, the problem is mainly in the western ticket hall,
(which I use every weekday morning) as can be seen by the number of
card slots that have tape over them. However the absence of tape
doesn't guarantee that the card slot will work. Others have
complained about this on uk.railway and uk.transport.london over the
past year or so.

That equipment must be almost new. How appalling.

It's not so bad in the tube ticket hall (which I use every weekday
evening) though I have certainly had problems there as well.

I've seen slots taped over, but not often.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

In article
,
(Mr Thant) wrote:

On 12 Jan, 23:38, (Colin Rosenstiel) wrote:
Nowt to do with the GN&C I expect, but a relic of the City
Widened Lines which provided direct services from the GN to
Moorgate (Met) until the 1970s.

But the rule is clearly designed to substitute for the Northern City
service, given the only intermediate stations allowed are Old Street
and Highbury & Islington.

Those may have come later, of course. They were not BR(GN) served before
1976.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On 13 Jan, 00:57, (Colin Rosenstiel) wrote:
Those may have come later, of course. They were not BR(GN) served before
1976.

Are you suggesting an arrangement existed before 1976 then?

U

--
http://londonconnections.blogspot.com/
A blog about transport projects in London

On 13 Jan, 11:55, Mr Thant
wrote:
On 13 Jan, 00:57, (Colin Rosenstiel) wrote:

Those may have come later, of course. They were not BR(GN) served before
1976.

Are you suggesting an arrangement existed before 1976 then?


I can't answer these questions, but a couple of things are worth
drawing attention to to help focus.

Firstly, Finsbury Park to Moorgate via Northern City did have evening
and Sunday services for many years. It's relatively recently that
they've stopped, and certainly doesn't go back to the 1970s.

Secondly, as far as I know, there were services from the Bedpan line
to Moorgate much later as well, I think until Thameslink started in
about 1988. So it was possible to go via Kings Cross to Moorgate
using only BR, with a change.

Thirdly, I think both GN and Bedpan services to Moorgate via Widened
Lines were always peak only, so any arrangement would only be
replacing peak services, not all-day services. So if there was an
arrangement allowing use of the Underground, it might have applied off-
peak in any case even when there were GN services to Moorgate via
Widenend Lines.

"Colin Rosenstiel" wrote in message
...
In article ,
(Paul Scott) wrote:

Good point Colin - if this really does date from that service
change, I wonder if this 'special case' will also come to an end
following the short (3 year IIRC) transition period when pax on the
Thameslink branch to Moorgate will be able to carry on using NR
tickets, after closure in December 2008. It would seem unfair to
them (Thameslink) otherwise...

Has that limitation been announced as part of the Thameslink programme?
Things already appear to be somewhat different on BedPan from the GN.


Yes it's at para 37 of the SofS's 'closure decision letter' - the transition
period is only 2 years though.

http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/rail/pi/tl...losuredecision

Paul S