On 12 Jan, 19:37, David Jackman pleasereplytogroup wrote:
Mizter T wrote in news:0eed117e-58ec-4f04-8b8e-
:

What is definitely allowed is to combine a season Travelcard and a
rail-only season ticket when your train stops at the point when you
swap between the two tickets - so lets say you travel from Woking to
London Waterloo, then as long as you got on a train that stopped at
Surbiton you could have a Woking to Surbiton rail-only season (as a
printed ticket), and then a zones 1-6 season Travelcard (issued on
Oyster if you so desire) which would kick in at Surbiton (Surbiton
being in zone 6).
What I'm less clear on is whether this would be allowed if the Woking
to London Waterloo train did not stop at Surbiton (as only some trains
from Woking to Waterloo do stop there). Perhaps someone can put me
right on this once and for all!

From the National Rail Conditions of Carriage:

"19. Using a combination of tickets

You may use two or more tickets for one journey as long as together they
cover the entire journey and one of the following applies:

(a) they are both Zonal Tickets (unless special conditions prohibit
their use);

(b) the train you are in calls at the station where you change from one
ticket to another; or

(c) one of the tickets is a Season Ticket (which for this purpose does
not include Season Tickets or travel passes issued on behalf of a
passenger transport executive or
local authority) or a leisure travel pass, and the other ticket(s)
is/are not."

In this case (a) does not apply as Woking to Surbiton is not "Zonal",
(b) doesn't if the train doesn't stop at Surbiton and (c) doesn't as
both the tickets are season tickets and neither is issued by a PTE or
local authority.

So the combination is not valid.

David

Hmm. How annoying.

I expected the response to be the same as stated above, as it'd be far
too convenient otherwise. I need Zone 1-5 (I go into KX via Euston)
and London to Cambridge, so whilst an annual Oyster is cheaper than
PAYG, the separate tickets would cost ~£696.00 more than a combined
CAM-LT + 1-6 ticket, but if I could get Cambridge-Oakleigh Park and a
1-5 Oyster TC, then that's only £36 more than the paper ticket, and a
lot more convenient. I imagine they price them based on the fact the
TC covers you all the way out to Hadley Wood anyway, so it just seems
malicious that they wouldn't let you mix the two on a non-stopping
train.

In article ,
(Paul Scott) wrote:

"Colin Rosenstiel" wrote in message
...
In article ,
(Paul Scott) wrote:

Good point Colin - if this really does date from that service
change, I wonder if this 'special case' will also come to an end
following the short (3 year IIRC) transition period when pax on the
Thameslink branch to Moorgate will be able to carry on using NR
tickets, after closure in December 2008. It would seem unfair to
them (Thameslink) otherwise...

Has that limitation been announced as part of the Thameslink
programme? Things already appear to be somewhat different on BedPan
from the GN.

Yes it's at para 37 of the SofS's 'closure decision letter' - the
transition period is only 2 years though.

http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/rail/pi/tl...0closuredecisi
on

That still only refers to Bedpan passengers, then.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

In article
,
(MIG) wrote:

On 13 Jan, 11:55, Mr Thant
wrote:
On 13 Jan, 00:57, (Colin Rosenstiel) wrote:

Those may have come later, of course. They were not BR(GN)
served before 1976.

Are you suggesting an arrangement existed before 1976 then?


I can't answer these questions, but a couple of things are worth
drawing attention to to help focus.

Firstly, Finsbury Park to Moorgate via Northern City did have evening
and Sunday services for many years. It's relatively recently that
they've stopped, and certainly doesn't go back to the 1970s.

The main point about the situation pre-1976 is that the GNCR was always
part of the Underground before then. Once BR took it over the evening and
weekend services did fluctuate somewhat but have always been more limited
than those on some other lines.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

"Colin Rosenstiel" wrote in message
...
In article ,
(Paul Scott) wrote:

"Colin Rosenstiel" wrote in message
...
In article ,
(Paul Scott) wrote:

Good point Colin - if this really does date from that service
change, I wonder if this 'special case' will also come to an end
following the short (3 year IIRC) transition period when pax on the
Thameslink branch to Moorgate will be able to carry on using NR
tickets, after closure in December 2008. It would seem unfair to
them (Thameslink) otherwise...

Has that limitation been announced as part of the Thameslink
programme? Things already appear to be somewhat different on BedPan
from the GN.

Yes it's at para 37 of the SofS's 'closure decision letter' - the
transition period is only 2 years though.

http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/rail/pi/tl...0closuredecisi
on

That still only refers to Bedpan passengers, then.


Yes - what I was getting at was the short period any 'new special
arrangement' might be valid for, yet there appear to be much older special
arrangements that appear to be carrying on...

Paul

In article ,
(Paul Scott) wrote:

"Colin Rosenstiel" wrote in message
...
In article ,
(Paul Scott) wrote:

"Colin Rosenstiel" wrote in message
...
In article ,
(Paul Scott) wrote:

Good point Colin - if this really does date from that service
change, I wonder if this 'special case' will also come to an end
following the short (3 year IIRC) transition period when pax on
the Thameslink branch to Moorgate will be able to carry on using
NR tickets, after closure in December 2008. It would seem unfair
to them (Thameslink) otherwise...

Has that limitation been announced as part of the Thameslink
programme? Things already appear to be somewhat different on
BedPan
from the GN.

Yes it's at para 37 of the SofS's 'closure decision letter' - the
transition period is only 2 years though.


http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/rail/pi/tl...losuredecision

That still only refers to Bedpan passengers, then.

Yes - what I was getting at was the short period any 'new special
arrangement' might be valid for, yet there appear to be much older
special arrangements that appear to be carrying on...

I suppose we'll find out with time. It matters a bit on the GN, where FCC
have now withdrawn all overnight and beyond return fares to Underground
destinations.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On Jan 13, 12:57 am, (Colin Rosenstiel) wrote:
In article
,

(Paul Oter) wrote:
As I mentioned, the problem is mainly in the western ticket hall,
(which I use every weekday morning) as can be seen by the number of
card slots that have tape over them. However the absence of tape
doesn't guarantee that the card slot will work. Others have
complained about this on uk.railway and uk.transport.london over the
past year or so.

That equipment must be almost new. How appalling.

It's not so bad in the tube ticket hall (which I use every weekday
evening) though I have certainly had problems there as well.

I've seen slots taped over, but not often.


0915 today: King's Cross Underground Station, Western Ticket Hall.
The station had only just been re-opened after yet another station
closure so there were a lot of people trying to get into the station.
Normally the left-most six ticket gates are available to passengers
who want to get to the Met/Circle H+C platforms.

Gate 1: Appeared to be working properly, with people going through
Gate 2: Oystercard reader working but card slot taped up.
Gate 3: Set "no entry" for no obvious reason.
Gate 4: Apparently working, but ominously nobody was using it despite
the throng of people trying to get through the gates. I approached the
gate and offered my ticket to the card slot. It wouldn't go in (i.e. a
mechanical problem either with the rollers or the card detection
system that activates them). I shrugged and joined the queue of people
who had clearly just done the same and were now waiting to go through
the fifth gate.
Gate 5: Working OK. It accepted my card without problem.
Gate 6 (minded by the staff member): Working OK.

(So out of six entry gates, Oystercard holders could use five and
paper ticket holders could only use three).

Gates 7-12 All set for exit and apparently working.

PaulO

On Sat, 12 Jan 2008 13:37:17 -0600, David Jackman pleasereplytogroup
wrote:

From the National Rail Conditions of Carriage:

"19. Using a combination of tickets

You may use two or more tickets for one journey as long as together they
cover the entire journey and one of the following applies:

(a) they are both Zonal Tickets (unless special conditions prohibit
their use);

(b) the train you are in calls at the station where you change from one
ticket to another; or

(c) one of the tickets is a Season Ticket (which for this purpose does
not include Season Tickets or travel passes issued on behalf of a
passenger transport executive or
local authority) or a leisure travel pass, and the other ticket(s)
is/are not."

In this case (a) does not apply as Woking to Surbiton is not "Zonal",
(b) doesn't if the train doesn't stop at Surbiton and (c) doesn't as
both the tickets are season tickets and neither is issued by a PTE or
local authority.

So the combination is not valid.

So would a Cambridge to R456 season ticket and a TfL zones 1 to 3
annual travelcard be valid for a non stop Cambridge to Kings Cross,
since it would appear both are zonal tickets?

If so, if you had the TfL zones 1 to 3 on an Oyster card, woul this be
a problem, as you would need to use the Oyster to out and back into
Kings Cross?

JB

On 17 Jan, 17:17, JB wrote:

So would a Cambridge to R456 season ticket and a TfL zones 1 to 3
annual travelcard be valid for a non stop Cambridge to Kings Cross,
since it would appear both are zonal tickets?

Interesting qn; anyone got a convincing answer? I'm fairly sure the
answer is that it would not be valid, but I can't work out on what
grounds the C-R456 would be defined as "not zonal".

If so, if you had the TfL zones 1 to 3 on an Oyster card, woul this be
a problem, as you would need to use the Oyster to out and back into
Kings Cross?

There's no problem entering or leaving KX with a z123 season ticket on
Oyster (indeed, I've frequently gone from KX to Finsbury Park on NR on
a z12 season ticket on Oyster) - an Oyster season ticket is valid at,
and will open the gates at, any station of any kind[*]in the zones
for which it is valid.
[*] yes, pedants, even fire stations and police stations.

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org

JB wrote:

On Sat, 12 Jan 2008 13:37:17 -0600, David Jackman pleasereplytogroup
wrote:

From the National Rail Conditions of Carriage:

"19. Using a combination of tickets

You may use two or more tickets for one journey as long as together they
cover the entire journey and one of the following applies:

(a) they are both Zonal Tickets (unless special conditions prohibit
their use);

(b) the train you are in calls at the station where you change from one
ticket to another; or

(c) one of the tickets is a Season Ticket (which for this purpose does
not include Season Tickets or travel passes issued on behalf of a
passenger transport executive or
local authority) or a leisure travel pass, and the other ticket(s)
is/are not."

In this case (a) does not apply as Woking to Surbiton is not "Zonal",
(b) doesn't if the train doesn't stop at Surbiton and (c) doesn't as
both the tickets are season tickets and neither is issued by a PTE or
local authority.

So the combination is not valid.

So would a Cambridge to R456 season ticket and a TfL zones 1 to 3
annual travelcard be valid for a non stop Cambridge to Kings Cross,
since it would appear both are zonal tickets?

Yes, that would be fine.


If so, if you had the TfL zones 1 to 3 on an Oyster card, would this be
a problem, as you would need to use the Oyster to out and back into
Kings Cross?


No problem at all. The requirement to touch-in and out is only really
exists when one is using an Oyster card in Pay-as-you-go mode (or when
combining a Travelcard with PAYG to go outside the zonal validity of
that Travelcard - though obviously only on routes where PAYG is
currently accepted, i.e. the whole Underground network and a limited
number of National Rail routes).

If you were doing this you'd probably have to explain it if and when
you met a ticket inspector, but the combination is perfectly valid.

However it costs more! All prices below are for a month...

Cambridge - R1256 Travelcard - £380.20

versus

Cambridge - R456 - £314.90
plus zones 1-3 Travelcard - £109.10
Total - £424.

On Thu, 17 Jan 2008 09:53:43 -0800 (PST), Mizter T
wrote:


If you were doing this you'd probably have to explain it if and when
you met a ticket inspector, but the combination is perfectly valid.

Yes that was my concern. I seemed to be getting some of the ticket
office staff saying you couldn't do it and some saying you could.


However it costs more! All prices below are for a month...

Cambridge - R1256 Travelcard - £380.20

versus

Cambridge - R456 - £314.90
plus zones 1-3 Travelcard - £109.10
Total - £424.

When I checked, Cambridge - R1256 was £441.60. The £380.20 seems to be
for a ticket valid to the ex-Thameslink London stations (Blackfriars,
City Thameslink and London Bridge)?

The main reason why I was interested though, was to be able to have an
Oyster card to use on the tube, rather than a paper season ticket.