....yet, here we are again: ( Hertford to Crews Hill + Oyster )

http://www.hertford.net/yoursay1/pos...267&FORUM_ID=7

Contemporary, and valid it would seem, though there's a much greater
chance that those trains would stop at Crews Hill as it's on the loop.

On Fri, 18 Jan 2008 02:00 +0000 (GMT Standard Time),
(Colin Rosenstiel) wrote:

In article ,
(JB) wrote:

So would a Cambridge to R456 season ticket and a TfL zones 1 to 3
annual travelcard be valid for a non stop Cambridge to Kings Cross,
since it would appear both are zonal tickets?

I think you'd have problems this year getting a Cambridge to R456 season.
FCC (who set the fares) seem to have scrapped all Cambridge to
underground zones fares other than same day tickets. 'one' (who runs
Cambridge station) are struggling at present. Things may become clearer
later.

Cambridge to R456 is available on the season ticket renewal part of
FCC's website, if you put in Cambridge to Oakleigh Park. It offers the
point to point ticket at £2980 and the Cambridge to R456 as£3280.

On Jan 17, 7:48*pm, Tom Anderson wrote:
On Thu, 17 Jan 2008, John B wrote:
an Oyster season ticket is valid at, and will open the gates at, any
station of any kind[*]in the zones for which it is valid.

[*] yes, pedants, even fire stations and police stations.

What about radio stations? Battle stations? The stations of the cross?

Or action stations? Or even Acton stations?

I'm still tempted to think it is a valid combination, but I'd get rock-
solid confirmation of this first. I can certainly see grippers getting

I have emailed FCC to ask, although my last experience asking their
customer service team a question resulted in getting three different
answers and only getting a sensible answer when I forwarded their
nonsense to FCC's managing director.

You'd probably get a better response out of ATOC and then at least you
know it will be binding. I've also taken stuff to the MD because they
give our the wrong answers. She has corrected the mistakes they made but
even now they carry on giving the wrong information out.

In the separate thread about barriers retaining travelcards, customer
relations were adamant on return origin a travelcard was spent and their
barrier should keep it, in spite of clear rules to the opposite (it still
has validity on buses and the train/tubes back in the zones if you make
other means to get back there).

Once I'd found the right person in ATOC he contacted the right person in
Firstgroup who agrees with me, and is disappointed that "Customer
Relations" didn't read my whole email, which contained a link to the
section in the retail manual which sets this out.

I don't know how they investigate stuff but ISTM they just make it up as
they go along or always side with the railway, whichever is the easier
answer to give. They also manage to add a bit of sarcasm which is
unecessary. I guess it helps them pass the day

Cheers,
Dave

answers and only getting a sensible answer when I forwarded their
nonsense to FCC's managing director.

Remember now my last contact was over an erroneous price rise they put into
place where some season ticket fares went up from £552 to £1040. Customer
relations said it was due to zonalising fares, when in fact it was a
mistake (it was clearly a mistake as some longer journeys came out costing
less). They didn't bother to consider a fare doubling overnight was clearly
wrong.

The MD took it on board and it turned out to be a manual keying error which
the DfT had passed, though FCC said the fares were legitimate as the DfT
had passed them, so they would continue to charge them until it was
corrected. In the end the fares went back down after about a week, and
hopefully anyone that paid the larger one did in fact get a refund from
them.

I would have thought enough people dealing with the MD this woudl have been
sorted by now

Cheers
Dave

Anyway, I'm looking forward to the replay form FCC, though they are
dragging their heels on this, but I can't blame them what with all the
delay replay paperwork they're having to do this last week

I asked WAGN this in 2004 and then they replied:

"I would confirm that under section 17.3 of the National Conditions of
Carriage, the combination of tickets which you would wish to purchase is,
indeed, allowed, and would cover the journey being undertaken.

The name being used in that reply is still being used by FCC, in spite of
the fact that customer relations moved from Cambridge to SW1A and now to
Plymouth. That's one hell of a commute for the three or four people who
regularly answer emails ... (or they're all false names).

Cheers,
Dave

On 19 Jan 2008 16:30:49 GMT, DaveP wrote:

I have emailed FCC to ask, although my last experience asking their
customer service team a question resulted in getting three different
answers and only getting a sensible answer when I forwarded their
nonsense to FCC's managing director.

You'd probably get a better response out of ATOC and then at least you
know it will be binding. I've also taken stuff to the MD because they
give our the wrong answers. She has corrected the mistakes they made but
even now they carry on giving the wrong information out.

Very true. Today I was told by FCC that there was no such thing as a
Cambridge to R456 season ticket. When I pointed out that their website
offered one for sale, they told me their website must be wrong.

Another email has gone off to their MD...

On 22 Jan, 19:08, JB wrote:
On 19 Jan 2008 16:30:49 GMT, DaveP wrote:

I have emailed FCC to ask, although my last experience asking their
customer service team a question resulted in getting three different
answers and only getting a sensible answer when I forwarded their
nonsense to FCC's managing director.

You'd probably get a better response out of ATOC and then at least you
know it will be binding. I've also taken stuff to the MD because they
give our the wrong answers. She has corrected the mistakes they made but
even now they carry on giving the wrong information out.

Very true. Today I was told by FCC that there was no such thing as a
Cambridge to R456 season ticket. When I pointed out that their website
offered one for sale, they told me their website must be wrong.

Another email has gone off to their MD...

I wonder how many commuters from out-boundary stations aren't aware
that they can buy season Travelcards that include less than 6 zones -
and crucially don't include zone 1, which comes at a price. There are
a whole host of journeys where such Travelcards could be just the
ticket, as it were! Plus there's the bonus that Travelcards including
any zones are valid on all London buses, as the bus network no longer
makes use of zones.

Of course when it comes to such journeys it might be the case that
buying a rail-only season ticket and then using Oyster to take
advantage of the cheaper Pay-as-you-go fares is the better bet, though
it really does depend on he specifics of the situation.

Back to the point - I see the possibility that many people are paying
over the odds because they aren't aware of Travelcards that are less
than R1256 from out-boundary stations such as Cambridge, and this is
of course not helped by the lack of knowledge exhibited by some staff.

On Thu, 17 Jan 2008 22:19:08 GMT, JB wrote:

On Thu, 17 Jan 2008 12:36:04 -0800 (PST), Mizter T
wrote:

However, can I just say that I am a little less certain than I
originally was on the question of whether this would be valid. I can
say with certainty that combining Travelcards *within* the London
zones is legit - i.e. a zones 1-3 Travelcard plus a zones 4-6
Travelcard. It was on this basis that I presumed that a Travelcard
from an out-boundary station (i.e. a station outside of London, such
as Cambridge) would be OK.

In your scenario I'm just a bit wary of some requirement that perhaps
the train needs to stop somewhere within zones 4-6 for the Travelcard
element to "kick-in" (as it were), so allowing you to combine more
than one Travelcard. One could argue that part of the reason for the
higher price is the non-stop express journey into Kings Cross.

I'm still tempted to think it is a valid combination, but I'd get rock-
solid confirmation of this first. I can certainly see grippers getting
fussed about it. If it is a valid combination, FCC wouldn't be keen on
the knowledge spreading, given that they'd lose money. Though indeed
if it is valid, why isn't everyone else doing it?

Perhaps some ticketing gurus might help us work out the definitive
answer to this?

I have emailed FCC to ask, although my last experience asking their
customer service team a question resulted in getting three different
answers and only getting a sensible answer when I forwarded their
nonsense to FCC's managing director.

Well FCC's 'normal' customer service team delivered to expectation,
but an email to the MD that was passed on to a more senior member of
staff did deliver the results eventually.

FCC accepted straight away that two season tickets could be used and
as they were both zonal tickets that the train did not need to stop
at any intermediate station.

However they initially claimed that I would need a R3456 and a zone
1-3 travelcard, as a R456 and zone 1-3 would not cover the journey
over the boundary between zone 4 and zone 3.

I pointed out that a R456 would cover the journey up to the boundary
of zone 4 and 3, and that the zone 1-3 would cover the journey onwards
from the boundary of 4 and 3, and thus there was no 'gap'. I also
pointed out that extension tickets or excess fares on a zonal ticket
are calculated from the edge of the boundary, not the last station
within the zone.

They considered these points and then changed their minds to agree
with me. They have confirmed it in a letter advising that a National
Rail R456 season ticket and a TfL season zone 1-3 travelcard on Oyster
is valid on non-stop services.

I await the first ticket check with interest...

JB wrote in news:nocop3tpoan12q2qlafl4vrlsrspljpfqt@
4ax.com:

However they initially claimed that I would need a R3456 and a zone
1-3 travelcard, as a R456 and zone 1-3 would not cover the journey
over the boundary between zone 4 and zone 3.

I pointed out that a R456 would cover the journey up to the boundary
of zone 4 and 3, and that the zone 1-3 would cover the journey onwards
from the boundary of 4 and 3, and thus there was no 'gap'. I also
pointed out that extension tickets or excess fares on a zonal ticket
are calculated from the edge of the boundary, not the last station
within the zone.


I suspect this is one of the reasons why the rules do not require the train
to stop when changing from one zonal season ticket to another zonal season
ticket.

Clearly a Zone 1-3 and a Zone 4-6 ought to cover the entirety of Zones 1-6
- but finding a train that stops at the point you change from one ticket to
the other (in the case of FCC midway between Alexandra Palace and New
Southgate) could be rather difficult...

David