SWT mention in their latest magazine that the Waterloo Gateline,
installation about to start this month apparently, will have 120 gates.

How will this compare numbers wise with existing large installations, such
as Liverpool St?

Does anyone know if the subways from the platforms down to the tube will
have barriers?

Paul S

On 16 Jan, 17:43, "Paul Scott" wrote:
SWT mention in their latest magazine that the Waterloo Gateline,
installation about to start this month apparently, will have 120 gates.

So soon - I hadn't realised that! Also, anyone know what the latest is
on the Paddington gateline?


How will this compare numbers wise with existing large installations, such
as Liverpool St?

Does anyone know if the subways from the platforms down to the tube will
have barriers?


If the subway isn't covered then that does leave a rather gaping hole
open. Could the LU gates be shifted around so they also covered the
subway to the mainline platforms as well? Though I'm not sure how do-
able that would be.

Plus of course such a suggestion brings with it a whole number of
other issues, such as the LU gateline staff having to be able to deal
with National Rail ticketing, and it would also open up another back
door for ticketless travellers to get on and off the LU network.

Maybe SWT will just staff the subway at certain times, like FGW do on
the Paddington overbridge.

On Wed, 16 Jan 2008 11:36:29 -0800 (PST), Mizter T
wrote:

On 16 Jan, 17:43, "Paul Scott" wrote:
SWT mention in their latest magazine that the Waterloo Gateline,
installation about to start this month apparently, will have 120 gates.

So soon - I hadn't realised that! Also, anyone know what the latest is
on the Paddington gateline?


How will this compare numbers wise with existing large installations, such
as Liverpool St?

I haven't counted the gates at Liverpool St but I'd be surprised if
there were 60 on the main line concourse. The only place where there is
half decent array is on the Southend side of the station. All the
entrances are still sandwiched between retail units.

If Waterloo is to have 120 walkways then I think this will be the
biggest installation in one single station and certainly the biggest
"one off" installation I am aware of. Nowhere on LU gets close to those
numbers.

Does anyone know if the subways from the platforms down to the tube will
have barriers?

If the subway isn't covered then that does leave a rather gaping hole
open. Could the LU gates be shifted around so they also covered the
subway to the mainline platforms as well? Though I'm not sure how do-
able that would be.

I very much doubt the subways could be gated at all. There is no space
for run offs or for staff to attend to any ticket jams or similar.
There would be a very high risk of severe congestion and accidents and
very real difficulties in providing evacuation capacity.

I think SWT will simply work on the basis that they will have to accept
some "leakage" risk in the AM Peak which I believe is the only time the
steps and subways from the platforms are open. The rest of the time
everyone will go via the main concourse and I suspect that will easily
give them enough payback given quite a lot of the rest of their network
is gated so sealing Waterloo will be a big gain in dealing with "short"
tickets and other problems. It also gives an important boost to the
potential for Oyster and PAYG extension.

I don't see why LU would begin to consider moving its gatelines to deal
with a problem for a couple of hours M-F only. It's been a while since
I've been to Waterloo but isn't still a pedestrian route round the back
of the W&C line area from the "Long Gallery" to the Waterloo Road ticket
hall?

Plus of course such a suggestion brings with it a whole number of
other issues, such as the LU gateline staff having to be able to deal
with National Rail ticketing, and it would also open up another back
door for ticketless travellers to get on and off the LU network.

Which would cause LU problems and you'd still need Oyster validators
placed somewhere in the mix which would be a further cost and cause
potential hazards given the volume of them that would be needed.

Maybe SWT will just staff the subway at certain times, like FGW do on
the Paddington overbridge.

Is the right answer.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

On 16 Jan, 21:09, Paul Corfield wrote:
I think SWT will simply work on the basis that they will have to accept
some "leakage" risk in the AM Peak which I believe is the only time the
steps and subways from the platforms are open.

It isn't [IMX all day weekdays and sometimes even at weekends], but it
doubtless will be once the barriers are imposed. Yay progress.

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org

"John B" wrote in message
...
On 16 Jan, 21:09, Paul Corfield wrote:
I think SWT will simply work on the basis that they will have to accept
some "leakage" risk in the AM Peak which I believe is the only time the
steps and subways from the platforms are open.

It isn't [IMX all day weekdays and sometimes even at weekends], but it
doubtless will be once the barriers are imposed. Yay progress.

Actually, it's been peak hours only for a little while now.

Michael



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

On Jan 17, 12:12*am, John B wrote:
On 16 Jan, 21:09, Paul Corfield wrote:

I think SWT will simply work on the basis that they will have to accept
some "leakage" risk in the AM Peak which I believe is the only time the
steps and subways from the platforms are open.

It isn't [IMX all day weekdays and sometimes even at weekends], but it
doubtless will be once the barriers are imposed. Yay progress.


Given that SWT is going to introduce Oyster, leaving gaps at Waterloo
will presumably earn revenue, if every unresolved journey from Clapham
Junction is charged as an open single to Weymouth.

I can testify to how many people use the subway at all times of day,
but I assume that we'll end up with a London Bridge-type situation
were you have to go through two barriers in quick succession at the
end of the subway.

It would be extremely dangerous to have gates at the staircases, as
has been mentioned, but if there is room for LU barriers on one side
of the area that you come into at the end of the subway, I can't see
why there couldn't be SWT barriers on the other side of it.

It would be a pain, as it is at London Bridge, where I instinctively
put my travelcard back in my pocket and immediately take it out again.

On 17 Jan, 09:53, MIG wrote:
On Jan 17, 12:12*am, John B wrote:

On 16 Jan, 21:09, Paul Corfield wrote:

I think SWT will simply work on the basis that they will have to accept
some "leakage" risk in the AM Peak which I believe is the only time the
steps and subways from the platforms are open.

It isn't [IMX all day weekdays and sometimes even at weekends], but it
doubtless will be once the barriers are imposed. Yay progress.

Given that SWT is going to introduce Oyster, leaving gaps at Waterloo
will presumably earn revenue, if every unresolved journey from Clapham
Junction is charged as an open single to Weymouth.


They won't be introducing Oyster outside Greater London. Their
commitment is to introduce ITSO, which is unlikely to include a PAYG
type product. (ITSO seems likely to be able to hold seasons, carnets
and 'stored journey rights')

MIG wrote:
On Jan 17, 12:12 am, John B wrote:
On 16 Jan, 21:09, Paul Corfield wrote:

I think SWT will simply work on the basis that they will have to
accept some "leakage" risk in the AM Peak which I believe is the
only time the steps and subways from the platforms are open.

It isn't [IMX all day weekdays and sometimes even at weekends], but
it doubtless will be once the barriers are imposed. Yay progress.


Given that SWT is going to introduce Oyster, leaving gaps at Waterloo
will presumably earn revenue, if every unresolved journey from Clapham
Junction is charged as an open single to Weymouth.

The DfT have actually contracted an ITSO compatible smartcard - although
Oyster functionality is also a requirement within the zonal area.

It would be extremely dangerous to have gates at the staircases, as
has been mentioned, but if there is room for LU barriers on one side
of the area that you come into at the end of the subway, I can't see
why there couldn't be SWT barriers on the other side of it.

I'm not too familiar with the subway setup, mainly cos IMX it's hardly ever
open when I've arrived (off peak & weekends) in recent years, but does the
W&C line have a separate gateline to the rest of the underground, or just
validators?

Paul

..

Maybe SWT will just staff the subway at certain times, like FGW do on
the Paddington overbridge.

Is the right answer.
--
Paul C


FGW are now to provide a gateline on the overbridge where it was
previously only staffed..

On Jan 17, 11:26*am, "Paul Scott"
wrote:
MIG wrote:
On Jan 17, 12:12 am, John B wrote:
On 16 Jan, 21:09, Paul Corfield wrote:

I think SWT will simply work on the basis that they will have to
accept some "leakage" risk in the AM Peak which I believe is the
only time the steps and subways from the platforms are open.

It isn't [IMX all day weekdays and sometimes even at weekends], but
it doubtless will be once the barriers are imposed. Yay progress.

Given that SWT is going to introduce Oyster, leaving gaps at Waterloo
will presumably earn revenue, if every unresolved journey from Clapham
Junction is charged as an open single to Weymouth.

The DfT have actually contracted an ITSO compatible smartcard - although
Oyster functionality is also a requirement within the zonal area.

It would be extremely dangerous to have gates at the staircases, as
has been mentioned, but if there is room for LU barriers on one side
of the area that you come into at the end of the subway, I can't see
why there couldn't be SWT barriers on the other side of it.

I'm not too familiar with the subway setup, mainly cos IMX it's hardly ever
open when I've arrived (off peak & weekends) in recent years, but does the
W&C line have a separate gateline to the rest of the underground, or just
validators?


That's odd, because I've used the subway on Sundays etc.

I can't remember the exact W & C gate and validator arrangement, but
it would be easy to fit whatever was needed, I would have thought,
because there's just the one entrance.