"Standing at HN28 signal" wrote in message
...

What is also very interesting is that the Southern franchise is due to
expire in 2009. There are rumours that the metro will be signed over
to TFL and that Southern (or another franchisee) will keep the
mainline. The concept would tally with ELLX taking over stations from
New Cross Gate to Norwood Jnc.


Somewhat less than that according to the last board papers. One of Mr
Thant's useful summaries covers it:

http://londonconnections.blogspot.co...-takeover.html

Paul S

On 3 Feb, 17:50, "Paul Scott" wrote:
David Jackman wrote:
"Paul Scott" wrote:

The overground as 'part of the tube system' seems to be a fairly
regular mistaken belief. Only last week I read about an MP
(Battersea?) who was looking forward to ELLX phase 2, so that Clapham
junction could finally be part of the tube network...

Paul S

Surely TfL's intention is for the overground to be seen as a 'part of
the tube system'?

I'd love to know how many people now go from Waterloo to Clapham
Junction by changing at Westminster and West Brompton...

Perhaps some do, after all the 'tube map' attempts to show CJ as a
terminus...

Paul

No it doesn't, it shows CJ as an interchange, using the black-outlined
white circle symbol, and accompanies that with the NR (nee BR) double-
arrow device.

Of course I'm sure that some people will get confused, but c'est la
vie - I strongly suspect that used to happen in relation to the New
Crosses - at least with regards to those unfamiliar with the system,
and still does happen in relation to Greenwich and even Lewisham -
though the impressive ride through the Dockland's skyscraping
landscape does somewhat make up for that.

Of course I'd urge those travelling south of the river to consult
something other than just the Tube map.

As we all know there's the London Connections map from National Rail
(aka ATOC)...
http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/system...onnections.pdf

TfL's high frequency services could also come in handy, what with it's
indications of service frequencies (at least it's useful once one has
deciphered how it works - easy for us, perhaps a little daunting for
someone encountering it for the first time):
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloa...rvices-map.pdf

One I really liked was the now obsolete "Overground Network" map of
south London rails services from TfL and the SRA - for the sake of the
record I'm putting it up on some of my webspace, but I wish to stress
that it is now ***out of date*** !
http://mizter.t.googlepages.com/on_map_-_now_obsolete.pdf

It doesn't show the new off-peak 4tph service from Orpington via
Beckenham Jn and Herne Hill to Victoria, though I don't think anything
else is currently misleading but I haven't really properly checked it
over.

On 3 Feb, 18:18, MIG wrote:
On Feb 3, 5:50 pm, "Paul Scott"
wrote:



David Jackman wrote:
"Paul Scott" wrote in
:

The overground as 'part of the tube system' seems to be a fairly
regular mistaken belief. Only last week I read about an MP
(Battersea?) who was looking forward to ELLX phase 2, so that Clapham
junction could finally be part of the tube network...

Paul S

Surely TfL's intention is for the overground to be seen as a 'part of
the tube system'?

I'd love to know how many people now go from Waterloo to Clapham
Junction by changing at Westminster and West Brompton...

Perhaps some do, after all the 'tube map' attempts to show CJ as a
terminus...

The ones on Pay As You Go maybe?


I'm sure that was a factor for a few occasional visitors to New Cross
when the ELL was still around. Of course the change from the Jubilee
to the ELL at Canada Water was/is so much easier than at London
Bridge, so for those coming from central London this might well have
been a better route anyway.

On Feb 18, 8:31*pm, Mizter T wrote:
On 3 Feb, 17:50, "Paul Scott" wrote:





David Jackman wrote:
"Paul Scott" wrote:

The overground as 'part of the tube system' seems to be a fairly
regular mistaken belief. *Only last week I read about an MP
(Battersea?) who was looking forward to ELLX phase 2, so that Clapham
junction could finally be part of the tube network...

Paul S

Surely TfL's intention is for the overground to be seen as a 'part of
the tube system'?

I'd love to know how many people now go from Waterloo to Clapham
Junction by changing at Westminster and West Brompton...

Perhaps some do, after all the 'tube map' attempts to show CJ as a
terminus...

Paul

No it doesn't, it shows CJ as an interchange, using the black-outlined
white circle symbol, and accompanies that with the NR (nee BR) double-
arrow device.

Of course I'm sure that some people will get confused, but c'est la
vie - I strongly suspect that used to happen in relation to the New
Crosses - at least with regards to those unfamiliar with the system,
and still does happen in relation to Greenwich and even Lewisham -
though the impressive ride through the Dockland's skyscraping
landscape does somewhat make up for that.

Of course I'd urge those travelling south of the river to consult
something other than just the Tube map.

As we all know there's the London Connections map from National Rail
(aka ATOC)...http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/system.../print_maps/Lo...

TfL's high frequency services could also come in handy, what with it's
indications of service frequencies (at least it's useful once one has
deciphered how it works - easy for us, perhaps a little daunting for
someone encountering it for the first time):http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloa...rvices-map.pdf

One I really liked was the now obsolete "Overground Network" map of
south London rails services from TfL and the SRA - for the sake of the
record I'm putting it up on some of my webspace, but I wish to stress
that it is now ***out of date*** !
http://mizter.t.googlepages.com/on_map_-_now_obsolete.pdf

It doesn't show the new off-peak 4tph service from Orpington via
Beckenham Jn and Herne Hill to Victoria, though I don't think anything
else is currently misleading but I haven't really properly checked it
over.

I have never seen that before (I think colouring by terminus is a lost
cause but anyway ...).

The main thing it doesn't show is what might have been peak only
connections at the time, some of which are all day now.

Like London Bridge to Wimbledon loop, Barnhurst to Slade Green,
Ladywell via Not Lewisham, Blackfriars to Beckenham Junction and that
sort of thing.

Mizter T wrote:

(big snip)

One I really liked was the now obsolete "Overground Network" map of
south London rails services from TfL and the SRA - for the sake of the
record I'm putting it up on some of my webspace, but I wish to stress
that it is now ***out of date*** !
http://mizter.t.googlepages.com/on_map_-_now_obsolete.pdf

It doesn't show the new off-peak 4tph service from Orpington via
Beckenham Jn and Herne Hill to Victoria, though I don't think anything
else is currently misleading but I haven't really properly checked it
over.


I forgot to say this - what that PDF doesn't make clear, but the
leaflet in which it came did, is that it shows the weekday daytime off-
peak service, though of course off-peak services at other times were
much the same. (And sorry for not flagging it up as a link to a PDF
file.)

Regarding changes since this map was still valid - it shows the East
London line, now closed for the big extension works, and it doesn't
show the lack of off-peak through Northern line trains from points
south to the Charing Cross branch - however I was really scanning for
any changes in National Rail services other than the Orpington example
I gave above, and I don't think there have been any.