On Tue, 19 Feb 2008 13:03:06 +0000, Graham Murray
wrote:

On Newbury Buses the driver presses a button on the ticket machine for
each passholder, season ticket holder etc, but it does not actually
issue a ticket.

I thought there was a requirement for a ticket to be issued under the
new rules. A possible reason for this might be to avoid drivers
sitting there prodding the pass button continuously in order to gain
the company more subsidy than is due.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

On Tue, 19 Feb 2008 20:21:15 GMT, Neil Williams wrote:

On Newbury Buses the driver presses a button on the ticket machine for
each passholder, season ticket holder etc, but it does not actually
issue a ticket.

I thought there was a requirement for a ticket to be issued under the
new rules. A possible reason for this might be to avoid drivers
sitting there prodding the pass button continuously in order to gain
the company more subsidy than is due.

On the assumption that they're too lazy to do so if it also means
having to throw away some tickets?

In message
,
Mizter T writes
Ian Jelf wrote:
It's splendid to hear there's some pedigree in such ventures.

I'm afraid I'm more ignorant of matters pertaining to Lancashire than
I care to admit, hence I've never heard that told before, but it
sounds very interesting.
Referred to in one of the Brian Turner / Steve Palmer Blackpool books,
probably their Centenary (of the Borough, not the tramway) book of
c1979. Can't get to it at the moment as it's with a vast collection of
books at the Dowager Mrs. Jelf's place.......

Any idea how many tram systems could
theoretically be involved in such an excursion, and how far would the
walks between them be?

I have to say I think a little bit of this attitude would do us well
in the modern day - people often seem very reluctant to make changes
that involve even short walks between stations, or a bus stop and
station. I meanwhile perhaps take a little to much satisfaction in
doing such things! (OK I admit it, I'm a transport nerd!)
A local bus ride, or rather a series of local bus rides is actually a
brilliant way of sightseeing the "real" Britain that so many people say
they're in search of but few ever leave their double-glazed air
conditioned coaches to see.

I recall also an article *many* years ago in Buses Magazine of two
people doing a John O'Groats to Land's End trip in this way. Also, in
a later "Buses Annual" Stewart J. Brown and Gavin Booth did a cross
country trip from I think Liverpool to Hull in this way.


Brown and Booth sound like they were great men... but I've never heard
of them! Please enlighten me, were they noted bus writers of the era?
They're both still very much around!

Gavin Booth is a former editor of Buses Annual/Yearbook and has written
countless (excellent) books on varied subjects. Stewart J. Brown is (I
think) the present editor of Buses Yearbook and likewise has written
vast amounts on the subject.

Their articles are among the most readable I've ever read, so to speak.
Nerd Free Zones, if you see what I mean.

(Unfortunately if I heard someone was a "bus writer" nowadays I would
first wish to ascertain whether or not that meant they were a tagger
aka vandal.)
I'd never thought of that!

It's one of those things I've toyed with trying many times but alas it's
harder these days as the bus network has some remarkable gaps sometimes.
A Birmingham - Bristol trip in this way was a long-held ambition of mine
but there appears now to be no realistic way of going by bus from
Gloucester to Bristol, amazingly.

You could allow yourself to 'cheat' once by getting an NX coach for
this leg - only three a day mind, at 11.40, 14.05 and 20.05.

It is sad to say that I know 'country folk' who know next to nothing
about their local bus services - said services might be quite
spectacularly deficient, but nonetheless they still exist - however if
I suggest I/we come/go/have a day out using the bus I'm met with looks
of astonishment! Of course in oh-so many places the bus network is a
sad shadow of its former self.
People give me that look even when I suggest going to see them in
*urban* areas. I can think of none of my friends in the West Midlands
at least who would think of taking the bus in the way I do.

I do wonder if the "local bus" aspect of the new concessionary pass will
sometimes lead to confusion as to what does and does not constitute a
"local bus". Trent's TP service is one "grey area" I'd say. There
also was once a National Express service which became a local bus for
part of its length in the Pennines somewhere I seem to recall.

Tour buses such as City Sightseeing also advertise "local fares
available" (I understand to get some sort of deal with diesel duty). I
wonder if that might make *them* liable to carry 60+ passengers free of
charge? Test case coming I suspect!

Aha - that explains something for me! I had indeed always been
somewhat perplexed by sightseeing buses advertising the existence of
"local fares", especially in London, but I had thought (to the limited
extent I had though about it) that it was a genuine pitch for custom -
not amongst Londoners you understand, but just amongst unadventurous/
tired/ lost tourists who might see a familiar sightseeing bus they had
ridden sometime over the previous few days and sought refuge aboard
it, in the knowledge that it would take them slowly but surely back to
where their hotel was, or some such! I did think such a thing would be
quite ridiculous, but still within the bounds of possibility - I'm
glad to have had that cleared up!

I'm not sure whether such sightseeing operators will be overly keen on
letting mobs of older English people on board - that said I suppose
they would be recompensed for it! I'm sure I read somewhere (can't
remember where though) that the National Bus Pass scheme meant
operators would be compensated for the full fare that would otherwise
have been paid - but I do find that very hard to believe. Anyone know
the broad outlines of how it will work?
Well they certainly wouldn't be compensated to the tune oft he average
ticket on a City Sightseeing bus!

Doubtless, someone will soon be posting here with answers to these and
many other questions.

I've had a hard but satisfying day working in Abingdon, though, so
having checked my e-mail I'm off for a bath and a beer!

No buns today?
Not an important enough day, Last done for the Golden Jubilee I think.
Told everyone about the ceremony though.
--
Ian Jelf, MITG
Birmingham, UK

Registered Blue Badge Tourist Guide for London and the Heart of England
http://www.bluebadge.demon.co.uk

In message 01c871a1$00336260$LocalHost@default, Michael R N Dolbear
writes

Ian Jelf wrote

I do wonder if the "local bus" aspect of the new concessionary pass
will
sometimes lead to confusion as to what does and does not constitute a

"local bus". Trent's TP service is one "grey area" I'd say. There

also was once a National Express service which became a local bus for

part of its length in the Pennines somewhere I seem to recall.

Tour buses such as City Sightseeing also advertise "local fares
available" (I understand to get some sort of deal with diesel duty).
I
wonder if that might make *them* liable to carry 60+ passengers free
of
charge? Test case coming I suspect!

Free to pass holders, but I understand the District or Borough where
they get on will have 60 fares to pay to the bus operator from their
budget.
That will be a distinct shock to the sightseeing operators, I suspect!

Of course if the service is "operated on behalf of XXX
Council" this may be a transfer from one public purse to another.
Few of these sightseeing services are so operated.

I noted that the 2007 summer-only "Royal Landscape Link" service. Ride
Pegasus! (First in Berkshire) 300 (Virginia Water Station - Windsor via
Windsor Great Park)
has
Concessionary Fare Permits are not valid on this service
This service is supported by Royal Parks and Savill Garden
Yes I noticed that last year. It made me wonder at the time if
operators *can* choose to opt out of accepting concessionary passes on
commercial services.

Doubtless, someone will soon be posting here with answers to these
and
many other questions.

The Freedom Pass site has :

Q. What is the definition of a 'local' bus?

A. The definition of a 'local bus' will be self-evident in most cases,
but in a few instances could include some longer distance buses and
coach services where
part of their route is registered as a local bus service. If in doubt,
freedom pass holders can check with the service operator or local
Transport authority in that area.
Of course, however much a "grey area" the nature of the registration of
the service will give a definitive answer to this one. Should have
thought of that.
--
Ian Jelf, MITG
Birmingham, UK

Registered Blue Badge Tourist Guide for London and the Heart of England
http://www.bluebadge.demon.co.uk

On 13 Feb, 13:40, "Paul Scott" wrote:
Are they going back to the Rosco style setup after all then, or leasing
directly from Bombardier?

The latest press release clarifies:

"QW Rail Leasing Ltd is a joint venture between two partners -
National Australia Bank and SMBC Leasing and Finance, Inc.. The
European Investment Bank has also provided financing
"QW Rail Leasing Ltd bears the risk of disposing of the depreciated
fleet after the lease is terminated. Transport for London bears the
risk of the fleet performance and maintenance only during the term of
the lease"

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/medi...ntre/7525.aspx

It also emphasises they have the option of dropping the trains in 2027
and leasing new ones, and the size of the order has grown slightly
from that previously announced.

U

--
http://londonconnections.blogspot.com/
A blog about transport projects in London

On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 07:43:02 +0000, asdf
wrote:

On the assumption that they're too lazy to do so if it also means
having to throw away some tickets?

Or that it might be obvious what they're doing (or that they're up to
no good) and people might report it?

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

Ian Jelf wrote

Free to pass holders, but I understand the District or Borough where
they get on will have 60 fares to pay to the bus operator from their
budget.

That will be a distinct shock to the sightseeing operators, I
suspect!

http://www.surreycc.gov.uk/sccwebsit...pWebPagesByTIT
LE_RTF/Notification+of+arrangement+for+concessionary+bus+ scheme+for+Apri
l+2008?opendocument

Reimbursement for local bus operators participating in the scheme will
change from the current mileage based scheme to one based on the
numbers of permit holders boarding within the county. Further
information on claiming reimbursement is contained in a separate ‘Notes
of Guidance to Operators’ which will be issued to operators
participating in the scheme.

Concessionary Fare Permits are not valid on this service
This service is supported by Royal Parks and Savill Garden

Yes I noticed that last year. It made me wonder at the time if
operators *can* choose to opt out of accepting concessionary passes
on
commercial services.

From the document above

Permits cannot be used on:
Services of limited duration, or to special events
Long distance express services, such as operated by National Express
Services other than bus services (such as tram, railway)
Services in Wales, Scotland or N. Ireland
Services which the Department for Transport may from time to time add
to the
above listing.

So "summer only" might count as "limited duration" otherwise a ukase
from the DfT will be needed.

--
Mike D