R.C. Payne wrote:
Scott wrote:
When I lived in London the Victoria Line trains clevely had the
diagrams always pointing in the correct direction of travel so the
ones on either side of the carriage were mirror images with Brixton
and Walthamstow always at the correct end. This seems to have been
abandoned. When, and why?

Some lines have features that cause trains to become reveresed, for
example Heathrow on the Picc, Kennington (Charring Cross branch) on the
Northern. In these cases, handed maps aren't going to work. Not sure
about other lines, though, or whether/why they have been abandonned.

I think it was confusing to have them on some but not the others.
--
Michael Hoffman

On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 11:37:39 +0000, "R.C. Payne"
wrote:

Scott wrote:
On Thu, 14 Feb 2008 15:17:26 -0000, "Graham Harrison"
wrote:

I was on the Circle last week and became aware of a change in the
representation of underground/NR interchanges on the in car diagrams. It
seemed to me that instead of indicating the places like Victoria provide
access to National Rail you now get an emphasis on airport connections.
How long has it been like this?

When I lived in London the Victoria Line trains clevely had the
diagrams always pointing in the correct direction of travel so the
ones on either side of the carriage were mirror images with Brixton
and Walthamstow always at the correct end. This seems to have been
abandoned. When, and why?

Some lines have features that cause trains to become reveresed, for
example Heathrow on the Picc, Kennington (Charring Cross branch) on the
Northern. In these cases, handed maps aren't going to work. Not sure
about other lines, though, or whether/why they have been abandonned.

Reversal can also happen with C stock that doesn't stay on the same
line service all day (i.e. Circle Wimbleware or Circle
Hammersmith and City).

"Charles Ellson" wrote in message
...

When I lived in London the Victoria Line trains clevely had the
diagrams always pointing in the correct direction of travel so the
ones on either side of the carriage were mirror images with Brixton
and Walthamstow always at the correct end. This seems to have been
abandoned. When, and why?

Some lines have features that cause trains to become reveresed, for
example Heathrow on the Picc, Kennington (Charring Cross branch) on the
Northern. In these cases, handed maps aren't going to work. Not sure
about other lines, though, or whether/why they have been abandonned.

Reversal can also happen with C stock that doesn't stay on the same
line service all day (i.e. Circle Wimbleware or Circle
Hammersmith and City).

I get the impression that on all LT lines the maps on each side of the
carriage are the correct way round for the direction of travel more often
than they are the wrong way round. I wonder if there is an attempt to turn
carriages whenever possible to keep the maps the right way round.

On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 21:14:43 -0000, "Mortimer" wrote:

"Charles Ellson" wrote in message
.. .

When I lived in London the Victoria Line trains clevely had the
diagrams always pointing in the correct direction of travel so the
ones on either side of the carriage were mirror images with Brixton
and Walthamstow always at the correct end. This seems to have been
abandoned. When, and why?

Some lines have features that cause trains to become reveresed, for
example Heathrow on the Picc, Kennington (Charring Cross branch) on the
Northern. In these cases, handed maps aren't going to work. Not sure
about other lines, though, or whether/why they have been abandonned.

Reversal can also happen with C stock that doesn't stay on the same
line service all day (i.e. Circle Wimbleware or Circle
Hammersmith and City).

I get the impression that on all LT lines the maps on each side of the
carriage are the correct way round for the direction of travel more often
than they are the wrong way round. I wonder if there is an attempt to turn
carriages whenever possible to keep the maps the right way round.

Some trains are "handed" (e.g. A stock) and arriving back at the shed
the wrong way round leaves them out of correspondence with any
maintenance equipment which is not easily relocated. Where handed
stock was expected to be "turned the wrong way" during the day the
circuit was arranged so that it went to bed the right way round but if
services get disrupted this can prevent a train running through the
planned daily sequence and leaving it the wrong way round. In such
cases there would usually have been some provision made for the train
to make an extra journey (or sometimes one less) via the same area
where things went wrong (e.g. Watford triangle, Earls Court triangle,
Kennington loop).

On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 21:00:02 +0000, Charles Ellson wrote:

Reversal can also happen with C stock that doesn't stay on the same
line service all day (i.e. Circle Wimbleware or Circle
Hammersmith and City).

That couldn't result in it becoming reversed.

On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 11:37:39 +0000, R.C. Payne wrote:

When I lived in London the Victoria Line trains clevely had the
diagrams always pointing in the correct direction of travel so the
ones on either side of the carriage were mirror images with Brixton
and Walthamstow always at the correct end. This seems to have been
abandoned. When, and why?

Some lines have features that cause trains to become reveresed, for
example Heathrow on the Picc, Kennington (Charring Cross branch) on the
Northern. In these cases, handed maps aren't going to work. Not sure
about other lines, though, or whether/why they have been abandonned.

It was abandoned (at a guess) around a year ago, when the Jubilee line
diagrams were replaced with non-handed ones. Since then the Victoria
and Bakerloo have had the same treatment. None of the other lines had
handed diagrams (though not sure about the W&C).

On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 22:22:45 +0000, asdf
wrote:

On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 21:00:02 +0000, Charles Ellson wrote:

Reversal can also happen with C stock that doesn't stay on the same
line service all day (i.e. Circle Wimbleware or Circle
Hammersmith and City).

That couldn't result in it becoming reversed.

I refer the honourable gentleman to the triangular junctions at Earls
Court and Aldgate and the uncertainty of a train retracing its
previous route if e.g. a points failure causes it to go the "other
way" at some time during the day.

On Feb 21, 9:46*pm, Charles Ellson wrote:
On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 21:14:43 -0000, "Mortimer" wrote:
"Charles Ellson" wrote in message
.. .

When I lived in London the Victoria Line trains clevely had the
diagrams always pointing in the correct direction of travel so the
ones on either side of the carriage were mirror images with Brixton
and Walthamstow always at the correct end. *This seems to have been
abandoned. *When, and why?

Some lines have features that cause trains to become reveresed, for
example Heathrow on the Picc, Kennington (Charring Cross branch) on the
Northern. *In these cases, handed maps aren't going to work. *Not sure
about other lines, though, or whether/why they have been abandonned.

Reversal can also happen with C stock that doesn't stay on the same
line service all day (i.e. Circle Wimbleware or Circle
Hammersmith and City).

I get the impression that on all LT lines the maps on each side of the
carriage are the correct way round for the direction of travel more often
than they are the wrong way round. I wonder if there is an attempt to turn
carriages whenever possible to keep the maps the right way round.

Some trains are "handed" (e.g. A stock) and arriving back at the shed
the wrong way round leaves them out of correspondence with any
maintenance equipment which is not easily relocated. Where handed
stock was expected to be "turned the wrong way" during the day the
circuit was arranged so that it went to bed the right way round but if
services get disrupted this can prevent a train running through the
planned daily sequence and leaving it the wrong way round. In such
cases there would usually have been some provision made for the train
to make an extra journey (or sometimes one less) via the same area
where things went wrong (e.g. Watford triangle, Earls Court triangle,
Kennington loop).-

That's not actually quite right. The A stock always had universal
couplers. The problem is that many units now have only one driveable
end because of the cost of installing the OPO equipment.

But for years, the Northern, Piccadilly and Central, which have loops,
did have different A and D end coupling and had to deal with half the
units being uncouplable with others. The Piccadilly still does I
think.

(Actually, the Central was good at making sure the 1962 stock came out
of Hainault the same way it went in for years, then abandoned it in
the mid 1980s or so I think.)

"Charles Ellson" wrote
Reversal can also happen with C stock that doesn't stay on the same
line service all day (i.e. Circle Wimbleware or Circle
Hammersmith and City).

That would not reverse them, unless they go 'off route' to run direct
from Aldgate East to Tower Hill, or Gloucester Road to Earls Court.

On Feb 22, 12:00*am, "John Salmon" wrote:
"Charles Ellson" wrote

Reversal can also happen with C stock that doesn't stay on the same
line service all day (i.e. Circle Wimbleware or Circle
Hammersmith and City).

That would not reverse them, unless they go 'off route' to run direct
from Aldgate East to Tower Hill, or Gloucester Road to Earls Court.

C stock always had universal couplers though, so that must have been
the assumption.