On 18 Feb, 20:57, MIG wrote:
On Feb 18, 8:47 pm, "John L." wrote:

Thanks for replies. The answers to the questions below a

1) We'll be in London for 7 days
2) We wont be using National Rail
3) Odds are we'll be traveling before 9:30am a few days (but not all)
5) We'll be coming in to London through Heathrow - not sure yet by what
means
6) We're coming from the US so it will be awhile before we're back again
7) We're bringing 2 kids (ages 14 & 6)

Thanks again for the help.

In that case the best thing might to be get seven-day travelcards on
Oyster.

1) If you get at least a seven-day travelcard, you pay £0 deposit,
which is one headache sorted.

2) With a seven-day travelcard, you can use it any time of day; no
waiting till 0930.

3) It will cover National Rail in the zones (whether you need it or
not).

4) It will still cost less than seven times the off-peak daily capping
limit, let alone the peak capping limit.

If you also put a bit of Pay as You Go credit on the card, you can use
it to go beyond whatever zones you get (on the Underground) and you
can use the travelcard on buses in any zone for no extra.


John, just to say I'm basically in agreement with MIG's assessment,
though I will add a little extra information.

First off, your 6 year old travels free at all times on the buses,
Underground and DLR. Your 16 year old meanwhile is counted as an
adult.

I don't know how you are planning to travel in from Heathrow to
central London. There are basically two options, the Heathrow Express
- a non-stop mainline rail service which takes you direct to
Paddington station - it's quick at just 15 minutes, departs every 15
mins but is quite pricey (though inclusive deals with airlines or
travel agents might make it cheaper). Travelcards and Oyster cards are
*not* valid on this service whatsoever - tickets can be bought
onboard, though they are cheaper if you buy before you board and
cheaper still if you buy online beforehand. Your 6 year old would need
a child fare for this.

Their website is he
http://www.heathrowexpress.com

(I should add that if you are going that way you might find it costs
much the same for four of you to get a black cab in to town, but
beware that this will take longer, especially when it's the rush hour
when the roads get jammed up.)

The second option is to travel in from Heathrow on the Underground,
specifically the Piccadilly line. It takes longer, at 45 mins, because
it stops a lot on the way in, but it's considerably cheaper plus it
might well get you closer to where you want to be in central London,
and if not it provides an opportunity to interchange with many other
Underground lines.


The reason why how you travel in from Heathrow is relevant to your
choice of ticket is this - Heathrow is in zone 6, so you can't just
use a zones 1&2 Travelcard from it. However it is possible to load a 7-
day Travelcard for zones 1&2 on your Oyster card, plus put some extra
money on it so you can use the "Pay-as-you-go" facility to
automatically pay the extra fare from Heathrow/zone 6 into zone 2.
This is obviously only relevant if you are going to be coming in from
Heathrow on the Underground, or otherwise making trips outside zones
1&2.

The thing is that whilst the "visitBritain" website allows you to buy
Oyster cards in advance and have them sent to a US address, it only
allows you to buy them loaded with "Pay as you go" credit, not
Travelcards as well. See:
http://www.visitbritaindirect.com/en...oductCode=T105

However visitBritain also allows you to buy paper Travelcards - i.e.
they are issued as a printed paper ticket, rather than being loaded on
Oyster.
The specific ticket you're after is the "Adult, Zones 1-2, 7-days,
Peak" at a cost of US$35.50:
http://www.visitbritaindirect.com/en...oductCode=T102

If you were to buy this paper Travelcard then it would *not* be valid
on the Underground from Heathrow in itself - you would need to buy an
extension ticket (or three!) from Heathrow to cover you to get into
zone 2, which would cost you GBP 3 each. Technically this could be
done from the ticket machines if you knew what you wanted, but it
would be easier to get it from the ticket office - the issue being
that the ticket office is often pretty busy. Coming back from central
London into Heathrow you would also need to buy extension tickets, but
would have to do so from a ticket office.


Of course when you arrive at Heathrow you could go and buy your zones
1&2 Travelcards loaded on Oyster cards, and add a little extra Pay-as-
you-go credit to cover the journey in from Heathrow plus the journey
back to Heathrow - the extra fare to cover your journey in from or
back to Heathrow if using Oyster Pay-as-you-go would is GBP 1.80 or
GBP 1.00 depending upon the time of day.

Whilst this again does mean you'd have to deal with this on arrival,
you don't have to go to the normal ticket office to buy these more
complicated tickets - you can go to a special Transport for London
Travel Information Centre that is located right next to the entrance
to the Underground station, but is separate from it. This is often far
less busy and has lots of helpful (and multilingual) staff, and is
more like a travel agent in that you can sit down in front of a desk
and buy your tickets in quite a civilised manner. (I'm pretty sure
that they can't sell single Underground tickets there, which in many
ways actually helps to keep it much less hectic.) You would be able to
buy your zones 1&2 Travelcards on Oyster and add some extra Pay-as-you-
go credit right here.

The Travel Information Centre at Heathrow is open 6.30am to 10pm and
is next to the Underground station for Terminals 1,2 & 3, rather than
the Terminal 4 station - so if your flight does arrive at Terminal 4,
please don't try and follow this specific bit of advice! The ticket
office at Terminal 4 station could of course sell you your Travelcards
on Oyster, but there might be quite a queue there.

If you do travel in by Heathrow Express, you could buy your
Travelcards from any Underground ticket office in central London, as
well as a number of convenience stores. Indeed if it's all a bit much
at Heathrow you could of course just buy a normal single fare on a
paper ticket for your journey in on the Underground, then deal with
all this Oyster card malarkey when you've had a nap and refreshed
yourselves!


Sorry for the extra long post, I guess this just goes to prove that
life is complicated! If you've got any other questions, or if the
above is about as clear as mud, then please feel free to ask away.

In message
, at
12:59:39 on Mon, 18 Feb 2008, MIG
remarked:
I should have said, maybe you could get your Oysters with seven-day
zone 1 - 2 travelcards and £0 deposit at Heathrow,

Sounds like a good plan!

and at the same time get as much Pay As You Go credit as you need to
get from Heathrow to zone 2 on the Piccadilly Line.

And to get back the Heathrow at the end of the week.
--
Roland Perry

In message
of
Mon, 18 Feb 2008 14:53:14 in uk.transport.london, Mizter T
writes

[snip]

Sorry for the extra long post, I guess this just goes to prove that
life is complicated! If you've got any other questions, or if the
above is about as clear as mud, then please feel free to ask away.

Your long post omitted to mention the service I use when I must use
Heathrow and can choose the mode - Heathrow Connect (HC)
http://www.heathrowconnect.com/.
30 minute service interval and about 30 minutes travel time.
Roughly half as expensive as Heathrow Express (HE) which has double the
service interval and half the travel time.
Roughly double the cost of London Underground and half the travel time.
I have never known HC packed (I await screams telling when it is so .

I don't recall the signage at Heathrow but HC leaves from the HE
platform. Follow signs for that service. The OP should make sure not to
take HE or a courteous ticket inspector will take loads a money.
--
Walter Briscoe

On Mon, 18 Feb 2008 14:53:14 -0800 (PST), Mizter T wrote:

First off, your 6 year old travels free at all times on the buses,
Underground and DLR.

How does he get through the gates?

--
jhk

"Jarle H Knudsen" wrote in message
.. .

How does he get through the gates?

Accompanied by an adult, via the manned luggage gate, one would assume.

Ian

Mizter T wrote:


I wouldn't be so sure of that. I'm pretty sure that I managed to break
three Oyster cards because I kept them in my back trouser pocket all
the time - force of habit meant that's where I had kept my tickets all
the years. I might have had my suspicions after the second, but was
only sure of this after the third! AIUI basically what happens is that
the tiny antennae in the card break when the card gets bent enough -
and that's exactly what I was subjecting mine to day after day after
day!


I think something similar must've happened to my Oyster Card when I had
one. It just stopped working for no obvious reason.

I decided to give up and stick with proper tickets untuil the technology
gets more reliable. IMHO it's worth paying the little bit extra for the
reassurance.

On 19 Feb, 11:03, "Ian F." wrote:
"Jarle H Knudsen" wrote in messagenews:137zpin9e3jsz.13134vklzudbc$.dlg@40tud e.net...

How does he get through the gates?

Accompanied by an adult, via the manned luggage gate, one would assume.

Ian


That's absolutely correct. On the Underground and DLR they need to be
accompanied by an adult to be let through the gates. If they are not
accompanied then they need a 5-10 Oyster photocard - application forms
for this are available from Post Offices in Greater London, and
applications must them be made in person at said Post Offices, along
with supporting documentation. I don't think you actually have to
present the relevant child at the Post Office though!

On buses and trams 5-10 year olds don't need any kind of ticket
whether accompanied or not. At Wimbledon this simply means they are
let through the gate to get to and from the Tramlink platform.

Any children aged 5-10 will still need tickets for travel on National
Rail services, as does any child aged 5-16. However off-peak Day
Travelcards for children for zones 1-6 cost just GBP 2.00 (GBP 2.60
for zones 1-9, GBP 2.40 for zones 2-9), *and* up to four children
travelling with an adult who has any kind of valid Travelcard can get
child Travelcards for just GBP 1.00 (I presume that currently National
Rail would issue these for zones 1-6, whilst TfL would issue them for
zones 1-9, but I am not certain of that).

On 19 Feb, 11:26, "solar penguin"
wrote:
Mizter T wrote:

I wouldn't be so sure of that. I'm pretty sure that I managed to break
three Oyster cards because I kept them in my back trouser pocket all
the time - force of habit meant that's where I had kept my tickets all
the years. I might have had my suspicions after the second, but was
only sure of this after the third! AIUI basically what happens is that
the tiny antennae in the card break when the card gets bent enough -
and that's exactly what I was subjecting mine to day after day after
day!

I think something similar must've happened to my Oyster Card when I had
one. It just stopped working for no obvious reason.

I decided to give up and stick with proper tickets until the technology
gets more reliable. IMHO it's worth paying the little bit extra for the
reassurance.


I think the technology is pretty reliable - I know people who are
still using their original Oyster card that they got back in 2003,
having been using it on a near daily basis ever since.

I certainly ain't going to start paying £3 or £4 for a single
Underground journey, or pay £2 for a bus fare just for the sake of
'reassurance', because I don't think anyone really needs to worry
about that. If I did buy paper tickets I'd end up paying well over the
odds all the time, buying Day Travelcards for a few journeys around
town which I would have paid significantly less for using Oyster -
quite often I never reaching any daily cap anyway. If I have a season
Travelcard on Oyster then again I'll save in comparison to having it
on paper when it comes to getting ticket extensions for journeys
outside my zones (at least on the Underground and DLR).

No doubt I'm sure incremental improvements are possible to the system
and any such improvements are of course most welcome (whether it be to
the cards themselves or to the validator equipment) - indeed perhaps
more recent Oyster cards have already been improved in comparison to
the first generation ones, though I've no idea if that has happened at
all yet. Plus there is always the possibility of a dodgy batch of
cards, though maybe that was more likely in the early years.

I was annoyed when my card broke, and yet more annoyed when it
happened again - it was a fuss going to get them replaced, especially
as this happened early on and not all the Tube ticket office staff
were that clued up as to the proceedure for replacements. However I
understand that things have improved very significantly in that
department as staff have become familiar with the system.

But since I figured out that keeping my Oyster card in my back pocket
was a bad idea and stopped doing so I've had no problems at all. So
that's my basic bit of advice - by all means get and use an Oyster
card, just don't sit on it.

On Feb 19, 12:25*pm, Mizter T wrote:
On 19 Feb, 11:26, "solar *penguin"
wrote:





Mizter T wrote:

I wouldn't be so sure of that. I'm pretty sure that I managed to break
three Oyster cards because I kept them in my back trouser pocket all
the time - force of habit meant that's where I had kept my tickets all
the years. I might have had my suspicions after the second, but was
only sure of this after the third! AIUI basically what happens is that
the tiny antennae in the card break when the card gets bent enough -
and that's exactly what I was subjecting mine to day after day after
day!

I think something similar must've happened to my Oyster Card when I had
one. *It just stopped working for no obvious reason.

I decided to give up and stick with proper tickets until the technology
gets more reliable. *IMHO it's worth paying the little bit extra for the
reassurance.

I think the technology is pretty reliable - I know people who are
still using their original Oyster card that they got back in 2003,
having been using it on a near daily basis ever since.

I certainly ain't going to start paying £3 or £4 for a single
Underground journey, or pay £2 for a bus fare just for the sake of
'reassurance', because I don't think anyone really needs to worry
about that. If I did buy paper tickets I'd end up paying well over the
odds all the time, buying Day Travelcards for a few journeys around
town which I would have paid significantly less for using Oyster -
quite often I never reaching any daily cap anyway. If I have a season
Travelcard on Oyster then again I'll save in comparison to having it
on paper when it comes to getting ticket extensions for journeys
outside my zones (at least on the Underground and DLR).

No doubt I'm sure incremental improvements are possible to the system
and any such improvements are of course most welcome (whether it be to
the cards themselves or to the validator equipment) - indeed perhaps
more recent Oyster cards have already been improved in comparison to
the first generation ones, though I've no idea if that has happened at
all yet. Plus there is always the possibility of a dodgy batch of
cards, though maybe that was more likely in the early years.

I was annoyed when my card broke, and yet more annoyed when it
happened again - it was a fuss going to get them replaced, especially
as this happened early on and not all the Tube ticket office staff
were that clued up as to the proceedure for replacements. However I
understand that things have improved very significantly in that
department as staff have become familiar with the system.

But since I figured out that keeping my Oyster card in my back pocket
was a bad idea and stopped doing so I've had no problems at all. So
that's my basic bit of advice - by all means get and use an Oyster
card, just don't sit on it

A question that springs to mind: if your balance/travelcard expiry
could be ascertained from quoting the ID of the card (perhaps
unregistered), did you have to get a new Oyster and register it and
make a journey via a specified station before you could be reimbursed/
valid again?

It occurs to me that there are issues with transferring balances
between different cards, particularly if you can't prove that you are
the same person. Can't get my head round what they all are for the
minute ...

On Mon, 18 Feb 2008 10:42:18 -0800 (PST), Mizter T
wrote:

On 18 Feb, 16:40, Offramp wrote:
On Feb 18, 4:13 pm, "John L." wrote:

I'm taking my family to london this summer and was trying to determine which
card was better - Travel Card or Oyster Card. We'll be traveling within
Zones 1 & 2 mainly.

Thanks for the help!

3 Oyster cards are better at least because it is hard for people
sitting down to destroy them.


I wouldn't be so sure of that. I'm pretty sure that I managed to break
three Oyster cards because I kept them in my back trouser pocket all
the time - force of habit meant that's where I had kept my tickets all
the years. I might have had my suspicions after the second, but was
only sure of this after the third! AIUI basically what happens is that
the tiny antennae in the card break when the card gets bent enough -
and that's exactly what I was subjecting mine to day after day after
day!

You would be correct. In Hong Kong they ran a campaign to advise people
not to put their Octopus cards in back pockets simply because repeatedly
sitting on the card does result in internal breakages. They trialled
protective plastic cases for the cards - I had one given to me when I
visited MTRC a number of years ago.

There was also a campaign to stop people flicking their tickets but I
think that was for the old magnetic SVT tickets rather than Octopus.
That again was to stop damage to the ticket and the encoded data.

And yes, I now keep my Oyster card elsewhere about my person, and
haven't had a problem at all. Don't get me wrong - I think they're
pretty rugged, just don't keep them in your back pockets!

Is the right answer.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!