On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 19:52:04 GMT, (Neil
Williams) wrote:

On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 18:01:31 +0000, Charles Ellson
wrote:

Why should there be ? If the train is providing a Scotland (or bits of
England between SCT and London)-France service then London is merely
an intermediate stop which is already served by other trains for
shorter journeys along the same way. The mentality that insists
"everything must stop in London" is one of the impediments to a
properly-organised transport system which does not have parallels in
most other countries.

Hardly. More like, if London were omitted any Scotland-France service
would be hopelessly uneconomic. That's largely what killed NoL E*.

When did Eurostar operate directly from Scotland to France ?

On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 20:33:07 +0000, Charles Ellson
wrote:

When did Eurostar operate directly from Scotland to France ?

It was going to do so - the NoL Eurostar. It didn't happen because it
wouldn't have been economic without being able to also carry
Scotland-London and London-France passengers on the same trains.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

Am Wed, 20 Feb 2008 19:47:31 UTC, schrieb
(Neil Williams) auf uk.railway :

On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 11:47:58 +0100, "L=?ISO-8859-1?B?/A==?=ko Willms"
wrote:

No, check it out in Berlin or Hamburg or Munich ... that can be very
costly.

Doesn't stop a lot of people doing it.

True, today I witnessed a young women being caught, and who was
scared into giving here real address when the controllers told here
that the cops might come to her place if the address she had given
were wrong. Costs her 40 Euros...

Ticket gates are to public transport what DRM (Digital Rights
Management) is to digital music and video.

Hardly. Ticket gates don't stop you using the transport in a
reasonable manner; DRM stops you using music in a reasonable (to the
average listener) manner.

When one has to queue for passing such a gate, when the personnel
required to operate them is higher than without, when one has to think
about building tunnels just to keep the passengers within the
controlled area instead of letting them chose the shortest path ...
well, then a reasonable manner of using the public transport system is
no longer guaranteed. Just my opinion.


Cheers,
L.W.

On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 11:55:13 +0000, Tom Anderson wrote
On Tue, 19 Feb 2008, Peter Masson wrote:

Incidentally, Euston Square station was originally named, more
appropriately, Gower Street. It was only renamed in 1909 as a late
reaction to the opening of tube stations at Euston on both the Hampstead
Tube and the City & South London Railway (now the Charing Cross and Bank
branches of the Northern Line).

The story i heard is that it was a Windscale job, renamed after a series
of gruesome murders in the area, which had rather tarnished the name of
Gower Street. Tarnished it more than the presence of the Godless
Institution already had, that is!

What's "a Windscale job"?

....other than employment at the UKAEA's Windscale plant in Cumbria, of
course!

"Stimpy" wrote in message
. co.uk...
On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 11:55:13 +0000, Tom Anderson wrote
On Tue, 19 Feb 2008, Peter Masson wrote:

Incidentally, Euston Square station was originally named, more
appropriately, Gower Street. It was only renamed in 1909 as a late
reaction to the opening of tube stations at Euston on both the Hampstead
Tube and the City & South London Railway (now the Charing Cross and Bank
branches of the Northern Line).

The story i heard is that it was a Windscale job, renamed after a series
of gruesome murders in the area, which had rather tarnished the name of
Gower Street. Tarnished it more than the presence of the Godless
Institution already had, that is!

What's "a Windscale job"?

He means changing the name of something that has developed a tarnished
reputation. After the Windscale fire in 1957 they changed the name of the
plant to Sellafield in 1961.
--
David Biddulph

On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 23:17:06 +0000, David Biddulph wrote

The story i heard is that it was a Windscale job, renamed after a series
of gruesome murders in the area, which had rather tarnished the name of
Gower Street. Tarnished it more than the presence of the Godless
Institution already had, that is!

What's "a Windscale job"?

He means changing the name of something that has developed a tarnished
reputation. After the Windscale fire in 1957 they changed the name of the
plant to Sellafield in 1961.


It didn't happen *quite* like that...

The site was called Sellafield when it was a Royal Ordnance factory in the
1930's.

In 1947, the Calder Hall power station, the Sellafield weapons factory and
the Windscale research piles were grouped under common administration and the
whole site was called Windscale. The component sites retained their
individual names.

In 1981, the production and research arms were formally separated, rather
than being several (differently named) sites under one owner - the production
& industrial (BNFL) part of the site remained Sellafield whilst the research
and academic (UKAEA) facility remained Windscale.

In general, the public didn't differentiate the different areas of the site
whilst it was all under UKAEA control. This distinction only entered use
when the production facility was hived off to BNFL and the site name
'Sellafield' entered common public usage.

Nothing was renamed - the 'factory' has always been Sellafield, and the
'research' has always been done at Windscale.

On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 20:55:12 GMT, (Neil
Williams) wrote:

On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 20:33:07 +0000, Charles Ellson
wrote:

When did Eurostar operate directly from Scotland to France ?

It was going to do so - the NoL Eurostar. It didn't happen because it
wouldn't have been economic without being able to also carry
Scotland-London and London-France passengers on the same trains.

If it never ran then there was no way of knowing what would actually
happen. Many new services which really have run have enjoyed better
than forecast figures.

In message , at 00:01:28 on
Thu, 21 Feb 2008, Charles Ellson remarked:
When did Eurostar operate directly from Scotland to France ?

It was going to do so - the NoL Eurostar. It didn't happen because it
wouldn't have been economic without being able to also carry
Scotland-London and London-France passengers on the same trains.

If it never ran then there was no way of knowing what would actually
happen. Many new services which really have run have enjoyed better
than forecast figures.

And some enjoy worse than forecast (Robin Hood line, for example).

As the low cost airlines have shown, it's also important to be able to
tune your services, to keep the load factors up. Stansted/Geneva seems
to have lot several flights to Gatwick this year, for example. But the
"tuning out" of Ashford seems to have caused quite a stir!
--
Roland Perry

Am Thu, 21 Feb 2008 00:01:28 UTC, schrieb Charles Ellson
auf uk.railway :

It was going to do so - the NoL Eurostar. It didn't happen because it
wouldn't have been economic without being able to also carry
Scotland-London and London-France passengers on the same trains.

If it never ran then there was no way of knowing what would actually
happen. Many new services which really have run have enjoyed better
than forecast figures.

It was the opinion of the Arthur D. Little report "Review of
regional Eurostar services: summary report"
http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/rail/passenger/europe/reviewofregionaleurostarserv3325

especially section 4 in the chapter linked below:
http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/rail/passenger/europe/reviewofregionaleurostarserv3325?page=11#a1014


Cheers,
L.W.

Stimpy wrote:
It didn't happen *quite* like that...

The site was called Sellafield when it was a Royal Ordnance factory in the
1930's.

In 1947, the Calder Hall power station, the Sellafield weapons factory and
the Windscale research piles were grouped under common administration and the
whole site was called Windscale. The component sites retained their
individual names.

In 1981, the production and research arms were formally separated, rather
than being several (differently named) sites under one owner - the production
& industrial (BNFL) part of the site remained Sellafield whilst the research
and academic (UKAEA) facility remained Windscale.

In general, the public didn't differentiate the different areas of the site
whilst it was all under UKAEA control. This distinction only entered use
when the production facility was hived off to BNFL and the site name
'Sellafield' entered common public usage.

Nothing was renamed - the 'factory' has always been Sellafield, and the
'research' has always been done at Windscale.

This might be what happened in official terms, but as far as the media
were concerned the whole site was Windscale until the late 1970s or
early 1980s, when the site was in the news because of finds of
radioactive contamination in the area (including Seascale beach) and
Greenpeace attempting to block the outfall pipe into the Irish Sea on
several occasions.

After that, as far as media reporting was concerned, the name of the
site suddenly became Sellafield.

A lot of people read all sorts of things into the apparent change of name...
--
Jeremy Double
jmd.nospam@btinternet {real email address, include the nospam!}
Steam and transport photos at:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jmdoubl...7603834894248/