"Mizter T" wrote in message
...

On 21 Feb, 19:40, "Paul Scott" wrote:

"tim (not at home)" wrote:

"MIG" wrote in message
Because TfL wants daily capping to make day travelcards redundant.
Trouble is, all the rules are operating as if NR accepts PAYG, even
though that wished-for situation is years away.
I think you've misspelt, decades

Er.. January 2009 within the London Fare zonal area.


That's what TfL is hoping for, which doesn't mean it is going to
happen. Mr Thant, on his weblog entry that summarises the February TfL
board meeting, describes the roll out of Oyster PAYG as being
"pencilled in for next January"...
http://londonconnections.blogspot.co...ellaneous.html

Some of the TOCs might thus still be wielding their erasers.


Sure, I've seen all that [I've snipped it] - the previous poster's view was
that it will take decades, ie more than 20 years...

Paul S

On 21 Feb, 23:11, "Paul Scott" wrote:
"Mizter T" wrote in message

...





On 21 Feb, 19:40, "Paul Scott" wrote:

"tim (not at home)" wrote:

"MIG" wrote in message
Because TfL wants daily capping to make day travelcards redundant.
Trouble is, all the rules are operating as if NR accepts PAYG, even
though that wished-for situation is years away.
I think you've misspelt, decades

Er.. January 2009 within the London Fare zonal area.

That's what TfL is hoping for, which doesn't mean it is going to
happen. Mr Thant, on his weblog entry that summarises the February TfL
board meeting, describes the roll out of Oyster PAYG as being
"pencilled in for next January"...
http://londonconnections.blogspot.co...board-papers-m...

Some of the TOCs might thus still be wielding their erasers.

Sure, I've seen all that [I've snipped it] - the previous poster's view was
that it will take decades, ie more than 20 years...

Paul S

Some comments on the Oystercard rollout on London Overground at

http://www.londontravelwatch.org.uk/document/3136/get

On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 07:26:33 -0800 (PST), Mizter T
wrote:

On 21 Feb, 05:22, James Farrar wrote:
On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 22:04:36 +0000, MarkVarley - MVP

wrote:
On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 13:45:25 -0800 (PST), Mr Thant
wrote this gibberish:

On 20 Feb, 20:10, MarkVarley - MVP
wrote:
Is there any difference between national rail oyster PAYG routes and
london overground routes as far as touching in and out is concerned?

No.

cool

Specifically, "London Overground" is just one company that operates
"National Rail" trains.


Yes, but...

In terms of passenger facing communications TfL does refer to "London
Overground" separately from "National Rail" services - passengers who
don't know the story behind all this are thus quite entitled to think
of London Overground as being a different beast from National Rail.

Which, of course, right now it isn't.

I wonder if Livingstone's master plan is to eventually end up with all
suburban rail routes controlled by TfL and branded as LO, with
National Rail being reserved for long-distance train services.


Incidentally, passing through Waterloo LU station on Wednesday
morning, I noticed new-looking signs to the mainline station
(presumably installed ater E* decamped to SPI) simply saying "Trains"
with the double-arrow symbol. I thought LU had settled on directions
to mainline stations being the name of the station and the said
symbol, but apparently not.

On 22 Feb, 03:18, James Farrar wrote:
Incidentally, passing through Waterloo LU station on Wednesday
morning, I noticed new-looking signs to the mainline station
(presumably installed ater E* decamped to SPI) simply saying "Trains"
with the double-arrow symbol.

I think that's a Eurostar-era sign referring to both services.

I thought LU had settled on directions
to mainline stations being the name of the station and the said
symbol, but apparently not.

They use "National Rail" most of the time in new signage. Moorgate has
"Trains to Stevenage" and "Trains to Bedford" of course.

U

--
http://londonconnections.blogspot.com/
A blog about transport projects in London

On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 01:01:05 -0800 (PST), Mr Thant
wrote:

On 22 Feb, 03:18, James Farrar wrote:
Incidentally, passing through Waterloo LU station on Wednesday
morning, I noticed new-looking signs to the mainline station
(presumably installed ater E* decamped to SPI) simply saying "Trains"
with the double-arrow symbol.

I think that's a Eurostar-era sign referring to both services.

It looked new with no sign of a patch covering the E* logo (though I
could be wrong!)

"Paul Scott" wrote in message
...

"Mizter T" wrote in message
...

On 21 Feb, 19:40, "Paul Scott" wrote:

"tim (not at home)" wrote:

"MIG" wrote in message
Because TfL wants daily capping to make day travelcards redundant.
Trouble is, all the rules are operating as if NR accepts PAYG, even
though that wished-for situation is years away.
I think you've misspelt, decades

Er.. January 2009 within the London Fare zonal area.


That's what TfL is hoping for, which doesn't mean it is going to
happen. Mr Thant, on his weblog entry that summarises the February TfL
board meeting, describes the roll out of Oyster PAYG as being
"pencilled in for next January"...
http://londonconnections.blogspot.co...ellaneous.html

Some of the TOCs might thus still be wielding their erasers.


Sure, I've seen all that [I've snipped it] - the previous poster's view
was that it will take decades, ie more than 20 years...

I was prepared to compromise on one (decade)

tim

On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 17:03:32 -0800 (PST), Matthew Dickinson
wrote:

On 21 Feb, 23:11, "Paul Scott" wrote:
"Mizter T" wrote in message

...





On 21 Feb, 19:40, "Paul Scott" wrote:

"tim (not at home)" wrote:

"MIG" wrote in message
Because TfL wants daily capping to make day travelcards redundant.
Trouble is, all the rules are operating as if NR accepts PAYG, even
though that wished-for situation is years away.
I think you've misspelt, decades

Er.. January 2009 within the London Fare zonal area.

That's what TfL is hoping for, which doesn't mean it is going to
happen. Mr Thant, on his weblog entry that summarises the February TfL
board meeting, describes the roll out of Oyster PAYG as being
"pencilled in for next January"...
http://londonconnections.blogspot.co...board-papers-m...

Some of the TOCs might thus still be wielding their erasers.

Sure, I've seen all that [I've snipped it] - the previous poster's view was
that it will take decades, ie more than 20 years...

Well having read Roger Ford's March Informed Sources on ITSO
implementation (or lack thereof) for SWT I'll be astonished if we get
Oyster PAYG done for Jan 2009. Seems like the DfT haven't got a clue
what they've required of the TOCs and everyone is suddenly finding the
"detail" a bit complicated.

Given we move into the "no politically advantageous announcements" phase
of the Mayoral Elections soon then we won't hear anything until beyond
May. There may even be issues about whether some issues can be signed
off if they require Mayoral approval. If agreements are not finalised
before then for those companies still holding out then there isn't a
chance of the physical installation works being done by Jan 2009. This
is before you get to the point of whether cards can be procured, staff
trained, and all the ticket machines, existing gates and back off
systems modified to handle PAYG.

While I expect all the Mayoral candidates will say they want to see
Oyster PAYG rolled out on NR I still don't see what incentive there is
for the TOCs to play ball - particularly at the moment.

Some comments on the Oystercard rollout on London Overground at

http://www.londontravelwatch.org.uk/document/3136/get

And what a very interesting set of comments they are. Shows that real
life is even more complex than all the debates we had on here! Nice to
see though that Overground seems to be doing very well in its early days
with lots of money rolling in. That might be putting smiles of the faces
of people at LOROL if the concession terms are a tad favourable when it
comes to revenue levels.

--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

"Paul Corfield" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 17:03:32 -0800 (PST), Matthew Dickinson
wrote:


Sure, I've seen all that [I've snipped it] - the previous poster's view
was
that it will take decades, ie more than 20 years...

Well having read Roger Ford's March Informed Sources on ITSO
implementation (or lack thereof) for SWT I'll be astonished if we get
Oyster PAYG done for Jan 2009. Seems like the DfT haven't got a clue
what they've required of the TOCs and everyone is suddenly finding the
"detail" a bit complicated.


Another interpretation is that Oyster will work ages before ITSO -
especially as the new Waterloo gates (170 including the subways according to
NR) will only have magnetic card and Oyster readers, not ITSO.

I'm sure this has been one of your previous predictions?

Paul S

On 22 Feb, 01:03, Matthew Dickinson
wrote:
On 21 Feb, 23:11, "Paul Scott" wrote:



"Mizter T" wrote in message

...

On 21 Feb, 19:40, "Paul Scott" wrote:

"tim (not at home)" wrote:

"MIG" wrote in message
Because TfL wants daily capping to make day travelcards redundant.
Trouble is, all the rules are operating as if NR accepts PAYG, even
though that wished-for situation is years away.
I think you've misspelt, decades

Er.. January 2009 within the London Fare zonal area.

That's what TfL is hoping for, which doesn't mean it is going to
happen. Mr Thant, on his weblog entry that summarises the February TfL
board meeting, describes the roll out of Oyster PAYG as being
"pencilled in for next January"...
http://londonconnections.blogspot.co...board-papers-m...

Some of the TOCs might thus still be wielding their erasers.

Sure, I've seen all that [I've snipped it] - the previous poster's view was
that it will take decades, ie more than 20 years...

Paul S

Some comments on the Oystercard rollout on London Overground at

http://www.londontravelwatch.org.uk/document/3136/get

The top of page 3 of the document mentions "zone 10"?!

On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 20:49:33 -0000, "Paul Scott"
wrote:


"Paul Corfield" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 17:03:32 -0800 (PST), Matthew Dickinson
wrote:


Sure, I've seen all that [I've snipped it] - the previous poster's view
was
that it will take decades, ie more than 20 years...

Well having read Roger Ford's March Informed Sources on ITSO
implementation (or lack thereof) for SWT I'll be astonished if we get
Oyster PAYG done for Jan 2009. Seems like the DfT haven't got a clue
what they've required of the TOCs and everyone is suddenly finding the
"detail" a bit complicated.


Another interpretation is that Oyster will work ages before ITSO -
especially as the new Waterloo gates (170 including the subways according to
NR) will only have magnetic card and Oyster readers, not ITSO.

I'm sure this has been one of your previous predictions?

I can't recall if I've predicted that or not. I agree Oyster cards will
be accepted at Waterloo's new gateline based on what the article says.
What I am far less certain about is whether SWT will have installed any
further issuing capacity for Oyster cards at its stations or if TfL will
have managed to get existing gates converted at other SWT locations or
validators installed within the zones. Having PAYG notionally accepted
on NR routes is a nonsense if passengers can't top their cards up at
ticket offices or ticket machines. What on earth happens if people run
out of value or have a card problem - "Sorry nowt to do with us, call
TfL or pop to the newsagents". That's about as customer unfriendly as
you can get.

Read the London Travelwatch report referenced elsewhere in the thread
where SWT have refused to install *one* Oyster compatible ticket machine
with the result that the nearest Oyster Ticket Stop is the busiest
outlet in the entire agent network. I dread to think how much SWT must
be losing and that's with only two rail services accepting PAYG from
that station.

If we have this nonsense with just SWT imagine how daft it becomes when
you add in FCC, Southern and South Eastern. There appears to be a
little more enlightenment north of the river - I wonder why that might
be?
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!