On Feb 28, 10:09 am, John B wrote:
On 28 Feb, 09:55, Offramp wrote:
[DLR]

Do they still have those misleading - totally incorrect in fact -
signs on the validators that only pay-as-you-go customers need to
swipe in? (It should be that all Oyster customers need to swipe in).

Eh? Only PAYG customers do need to swipe in - if you have a Travelcard
that covers you for the zones you're intending to travel in, you don't
need to swipe in, whether you're on NR, LU, DLR or a bendy bus.

You might disapprove of this policy out of some misguided anti-season-
ticket-holder-animosity, but it's The Case [why the flaming hell would
it not be? They have paid a great deal of money for a valid ticket
that covers their journey...]

Transport for London disagrees with you. The Conditions of Carriage
state that all Oyster card users must swipe in at their start and end
stations.

On Thu, 28 Feb 2008 22:39:06 -0800 (PST), Offramp
wrote:

On Feb 28, 10:09 am, John B wrote:
On 28 Feb, 09:55, Offramp wrote:
[DLR]

Do they still have those misleading - totally incorrect in fact -
signs on the validators that only pay-as-you-go customers need to
swipe in? (It should be that all Oyster customers need to swipe in).

Eh? Only PAYG customers do need to swipe in - if you have a Travelcard
that covers you for the zones you're intending to travel in, you don't
need to swipe in, whether you're on NR, LU, DLR or a bendy bus.

You might disapprove of this policy out of some misguided anti-season-
ticket-holder-animosity, but it's The Case [why the flaming hell would
it not be? They have paid a great deal of money for a valid ticket
that covers their journey...]

Transport for London disagrees with you. The Conditions of Carriage
state that all Oyster card users must swipe in at their start and end
stations.

The CoC state all sorts of interesting things. In this case, you're
deflecting away from the original point that Travelcard holders do not
need to touch in and out[*] within the zones of their Travelcard to
avoid a maximum cash fare.
[*] And can you please stop using the inappropriate verb "swipe"?
Swiping the card across the target is liable to lead to a 94 error.

On Feb 29, 8:37 am, James Farrar wrote:
On Thu, 28 Feb 2008 22:39:06 -0800 (PST), Offramp



wrote:
On Feb 28, 10:09 am, John B wrote:
On 28 Feb, 09:55, Offramp wrote:
[DLR]

Do they still have those misleading - totally incorrect in fact -
signs on the validators that only pay-as-you-go customers need to
swipe in? (It should be that all Oyster customers need to swipe in).

Eh? Only PAYG customers do need to swipe in - if you have a Travelcard
that covers you for the zones you're intending to travel in, you don't
need to swipe in, whether you're on NR, LU, DLR or a bendy bus.

You might disapprove of this policy out of some misguided anti-season-
ticket-holder-animosity, but it's The Case [why the flaming hell would
it not be? They have paid a great deal of money for a valid ticket
that covers their journey...]

Transport for London disagrees with you. The Conditions of Carriage
state that all Oyster card users must swipe in at their start and end
stations.

The CoC state all sorts of interesting things. In this case, you're
deflecting away from the original point that Travelcard holders do not
need to touch in and out[*] within the zones of their Travelcard to
avoid a maximum cash fare.

[*] And can you please stop using the inappropriate verb "swipe"?
Swiping the card across the target is liable to lead to a 94 error.

The original point was "Do they still have those misleading - totally
incorrect in fact -
signs on the validators that only pay-as-you-go customers need to
swipe in? (It should be that all Oyster customers need to swipe in)."

As the DLR and TfL C-o-Cs state, "all Oyster customers need to swipe
in," as I said, or "all Oyster customers need to touch in," no matter
what their journey is.

I am not making this up - you can read it yourself.

It is Occam's Razor - everyone with whatever ticket on their Oyster
must touch in on the DLR or anywhere else. Pretty straightforward.

Further complaints, such as not wanting to touch in because, "they
have paid a great deal of money for a valid ticket that covers their
journey", should be addressed to TfL.

On 29 Feb, 08:51, Offramp wrote:
Further complaints, such as not wanting to touch in because, "they
have paid a great deal of money for a valid ticket that covers their
journey", should be addressed to TfL.

The conditions of carriage are overly simplified, probably so fare
evaders have one less excuse in court. As the sign on the DLR reader
proves, in practice they only care about pre-pay users touching in/out
everywhere.

U

--
http://londonconnections.blogspot.com/
A blog about transport projects in London

Offramp wrote:
On Feb 29, 8:37 am, James Farrar wrote:
On Thu, 28 Feb 2008 22:39:06 -0800 (PST), Offramp
wrote:

Transport for London disagrees with you. The Conditions of
Carriage state that all Oyster card users must swipe in at their
start and end stations.

The CoC state all sorts of interesting things. In this case,
you're deflecting away from the original point that Travelcard
holders do not need to touch in and out[*] within the zones of
their Travelcard to avoid a maximum cash fare.

[*] And can you please stop using the inappropriate verb "swipe"?
Swiping the card across the target is liable to lead to a 94 error.

The original point was "Do they still have those misleading -
totally incorrect in fact - signs on the validators that only
pay-as-you-go customers need to swipe in? (It should be that all
Oyster customers need to swipe in)."

As the DLR and TfL C-o-Cs state, "all Oyster customers need to swipe
in," as I said, or "all Oyster customers need to touch in," no
matter what their journey is.

The link you provided earlier was to the DLR C-o-C of 2006 which has now
been superseded. The latest one is the TfL C-o-C dated 2 January 2008 at
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloa...e-08-01-02.pdf
which includes the following:

"1.2. These Conditions of Carriage, which may be amended from time to
time, replace all previous versions published by Transport for London,
London Transport and its subsidiaries.

6.6. Using a season ticket on your Oyster card
6.6.1. When you use London Underground, London Overground and National
Rail services, you must touch your Oyster card on the yellow card reader
at both the start and the end of your journey. If the ticket gates at
stations are open you must still touch your Oyster card on the card
reader.
When you use a bus, you must touch your Oyster card on the yellow card
reader as you board the bus ..."

Note, no mention of DLR or trams, so touching in when your journey is
covered by a season ticket is NOT necessary on DLR or trams, but IS
required on LU, NR and buses (including bendy buses).

--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

On 29 Feb, 10:23, "Richard J." wrote:
The link you provided earlier was to the DLR C-o-C of 2006 which has now
been superseded. The latest one is the TfL C-o-C dated 2 January 2008 at
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloa...e-08-01-02.pdf
which includes the following:

Note, no mention of DLR or trams, so touching in when your journey is
covered by a season ticket is NOT necessary on DLR or trams, but IS
required on LU, NR and buses (including bendy buses).

Hmm.

Amused the self-righteous tit upthread is wrong - however, there is no
sane reason for this rule to exist on any means of transport, and
anyone who believes that there is (or that someone who breaks it is a
fare evader, rather than the victim of a bloody silly and pointless
rule) is an idiot.

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org

On 29 Feb, 10:23, "Richard J." wrote:
Offramp wrote:
On Feb 29, 8:37 am, James Farrar wrote:
On Thu, 28 Feb 2008 22:39:06 -0800 (PST), Offramp
wrote:
Transport for London disagrees with you. The Conditions of
Carriage state that all Oyster card users must swipe in at their
start and end stations.

The CoC state all sorts of interesting things. *In this case,
you're deflecting away from the original point that Travelcard
holders do not need to touch in and out[*] within the zones of
their Travelcard to avoid a maximum cash fare.

[*] And can you please stop using the inappropriate verb "swipe"?
Swiping the card across the target is liable to lead to a 94 error.

The original point was "Do they still have those misleading -
totally incorrect in fact - signs on the validators that only
pay-as-you-go customers need to swipe in? (It should be that all
Oyster customers need to swipe in)."

As the DLR and TfL C-o-Cs state, "all Oyster customers need to swipe
in," as I said, or "all Oyster customers need to touch in," no
matter what their journey is.

The link you provided earlier was to the DLR C-o-C of 2006 which has now
been superseded. The latest one is the TfL C-o-C dated 2 January 2008 athttp://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloads/conditions-of-carriage-08-01-0...
which includes the following:

"1.2. These Conditions of Carriage, which may be amended from time to
time, replace all previous versions published by Transport for London,
London Transport and its subsidiaries.

6.6. Using a season ticket on your Oyster card
6.6.1. When you use London Underground, London Overground and National
Rail services, you must touch your Oyster card on the yellow card reader
at both the start and the end of your journey. If the ticket gates at
stations are open you must still touch your Oyster card on the card
reader.
When you use a bus, you must touch your Oyster card on the yellow card
reader as you board the bus ..."

Note, no mention of DLR or trams, so touching in when your journey is
covered by a season ticket is NOT necessary on DLR or trams, but IS
required on LU, NR and buses (including bendy buses).

In the case of straight buses, I assume that the driver looking at the
bleeper is the equivalent of a barrier, and simply confirms that you
have something valid before you go past.

I've never bothered to touch a travelcard on a bendy bus. On a bus I
can't see that there's any possibility of this being fare-evasion,
since there can be no extended zones involved.

On Friday, 29 February 2008 10:53:04 UTC, MIG wrote:

I've never bothered to touch a travelcard on a bendy bus. On a bus I
can't see that there's any possibility of this being fare-evasion,
since there can be no extended zones involved.

What about Tramlink? They used to have notices warning of dire consequences of not touching in at the start of a journey, and stated that this applied even if an Oyster had a valid bus pass or Travelcard loaded. I'm not sure if these notices are still in place; I seldom use the system because it doesn't go anywhere that I often want to go. They also stated that it was necessary to touch in when changing from one tram route to another, which it had never occurred to me to do because it would be like changing from say Victoria to Northern Line at Euston.

What about a DLR journey which I did make recently, for Open House weekend. I Traveled to Stratford on the original line via Pudding Mill Lane and then changed there onto the other DLR line to get to Star Lane then walked to Cody Dock. Is it necessary to touch out when leaving platform 4 a or b when changing to a train on the former North London Line platforms?