I have to make a visit to FCC's central lost property office some time
soon. Will my Cambridge-London Terminals cheap day return be valid to
there (City Thameslink) via St Pancras International?

Alternatively, will it be valid to Farringdon to reduce my cycling
distance if I can't go all the way? I ask that because I am told by a
ticket holder that Cambridge-London Terminals seasons at least are valid
to Moorgate via Farringdon.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On 3 Mar, 01:03, (Colin Rosenstiel) wrote:
I have to make a visit to FCC's central lost property office some time
soon. Will my Cambridge-London Terminals cheap day return be valid to
there (City Thameslink) via St Pancras International?

No. See page A4:
http://www.atoc.org/retail/_download...8_Common_A.pdf

"In addition London Terminals fares are NOT valid if travelling beyond
St. Pancras International from the north or beyond City Thameslink
from the south."

Alternatively, will it be valid to Farringdon to reduce my cycling
distance if I can't go all the way? I ask that because I am told by a
ticket holder that Cambridge-London Terminals seasons at least are valid
to Moorgate via Farringdon.

Yes they are, but you're not allowed to use Thameslink services, and
you're not allowed out at Farringdon. See page L5:
http://www.atoc.org/retail/_download...8_Common_L.pdf

"between Kings Cross St Pancras Und and Moorgate (via Circle,
Metropolitan, Hammersmith & City and Northern Lines) but
intermediately at Old Street ONLY"

U

--
http://londonconnections.blogspot.com/
A blog about transport projects in London

In article
,
(Mr Thant) wrote:

On 3 Mar, 01:03, (Colin Rosenstiel) wrote:
I have to make a visit to FCC's central lost property office some
time
soon. Will my Cambridge-London Terminals cheap day return be valid to
there (City Thameslink) via St Pancras International?

No. See page A4:
http://www.atoc.org/retail/_download...8_Common_A.pdf

"In addition London Terminals fares are NOT valid if travelling beyond
St. Pancras International from the north or beyond City Thameslink
from the south."

Curious. On this occasion I'll just cycle from King's Cross but the
latter point isn't consistent with the tickets I was sold for
Cambridge-London plus London-Brighton and return last year and in 2006.
On both occasions I stayed in London overnight on the outward journey and
returned direct via King's Cross Thameslink.

Alternatively, will it be valid to Farringdon to reduce my cycling
distance if I can't go all the way? I ask that because I am told by a
ticket holder that Cambridge-London Terminals seasons at least are
valid to Moorgate via Farringdon.

Yes they are, but you're not allowed to use Thameslink services, and
you're not allowed out at Farringdon. See page L5:
http://www.atoc.org/retail/_download...8_Common_L.pdf

"between Kings Cross St Pancras Und and Moorgate (via Circle,
Metropolitan, Hammersmith & City and Northern Lines) but
intermediately at Old Street ONLY"

Ah! That all explains an old thread here much better than happened at the
time. It also suggests that the Moorgate validity is entirely a
substitute for validity via the GNC and definitely not a residue of the
Widened Lines services pre-1975.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On 3 Mar, 02:25, (Colin Rosenstiel) wrote:

In article
,
(Mr Thant) wrote:

On 3 Mar, 01:03, (Colin Rosenstiel) wrote:

I have to make a visit to FCC's central lost property office some
time soon. Will my Cambridge-London Terminals cheap day return
be valid to there (City Thameslink) via St Pancras International?

No. See page A4:
http://www.atoc.org/retail/_download...8_Common_A.pdf

"In addition London Terminals fares are NOT valid if travelling beyond
St. Pancras International from the north or beyond City Thameslink
from the south."

Curious. On this occasion I'll just cycle from King's Cross but the
latter point isn't consistent with the tickets I was sold for
Cambridge-London plus London-Brighton and return last year and in 2006.
On both occasions I stayed in London overnight on the outward journey and
returned direct via King's Cross Thameslink.


I think one problem is that ticket office staff are not always au fait
with the rules themselves - there have been many past tales here and
on uk.railway of people being sold the wrong ticket, including (IIRC
Southern) ticket machines issuing them with the wrong destination
despite the right request being made!

Furthermore even if you have the wrong ticket it might not ever have
got flagged up at the ticket gates - past posts have suggested that
the ticket gates at Kings Cross Thameslink were programmed very
liberally, given the shear variety of ticket types they could feasibly
encounter (an issue that has perhaps been transferred over to St
Pancras Int'l). I'm not going to dig around for it now but I certainly
recall posters reporting that "London Terminals" tickets from points
south were accepted by the gates at KX Thameslink even though they
shouldn't have been.


Alternatively, will it be valid to Farringdon to reduce my cycling
distance if I can't go all the way? I ask that because I am told by a
ticket holder that Cambridge-London Terminals seasons at least are
valid to Moorgate via Farringdon.

Yes they are, but you're not allowed to use Thameslink services, and
you're not allowed out at Farringdon. See page L5:
http://www.atoc.org/retail/_download...8_Common_L.pdf

"between Kings Cross St Pancras Und and Moorgate (via Circle,
Metropolitan, Hammersmith & City and Northern Lines) but
intermediately at Old Street ONLY"

Ah! That all explains an old thread here much better than happened at the
time. It also suggests that the Moorgate validity is entirely a
substitute for validity via the GNC and definitely not a residue of the
Widened Lines services pre-1975.


Yes, I remember that thread and thought the suggestion that it may
have been a legacy from the pre-1975 era were perhaps wide of the
mark. The most common explanation I've read is simply that Great
Northern electric (aka FCC) services finish operating to/from Moorgate
early (circa 10pm) and don't go that way at all at the weekend - so LU
can be used to get to/from these GN&CR stations instead.

In article
,
(Mizter T) wrote:

On 3 Mar, 02:25, (Colin Rosenstiel) wrote:

In article

,
(Mr Thant) wrote:

On 3 Mar, 01:03, (Colin Rosenstiel) wrote:

I have to make a visit to FCC's central lost property office some
time soon. Will my Cambridge-London Terminals cheap day return
be valid to there (City Thameslink) via St Pancras International?

No. See page A4:
http://www.atoc.org/retail/_download...8_Common_A.pdf

"In addition London Terminals fares are NOT valid if travelling
beyond St. Pancras International from the north or beyond City
Thameslink from the south."

Curious. On this occasion I'll just cycle from King's Cross but the
latter point isn't consistent with the tickets I was sold for
Cambridge-London plus London-Brighton and return last year and in
2006. On both occasions I stayed in London overnight on the outward
journey and returned direct via King's Cross Thameslink.

I think one problem is that ticket office staff are not always au fait
with the rules themselves - there have been many past tales here and
on uk.railway of people being sold the wrong ticket, including (IIRC
Southern) ticket machines issuing them with the wrong destination
despite the right request being made!

Furthermore even if you have the wrong ticket it might not ever have
got flagged up at the ticket gates - past posts have suggested that
the ticket gates at Kings Cross Thameslink were programmed very
liberally, given the shear variety of ticket types they could feasibly
encounter (an issue that has perhaps been transferred over to St
Pancras Int'l). I'm not going to dig around for it now but I certainly
recall posters reporting that "London Terminals" tickets from points
south were accepted by the gates at KX Thameslink even though they
shouldn't have been.

In my case my tickets were never tested in the KX TL gates because if you
had any luggage (even in my case just shoulder bags on at least one
occasion) you had to use the manual gates where the staff just let me
through.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

"Mizter T" wrote in message
...

I think one problem is that ticket office staff are not always au fait
with the rules themselves - there have been many past tales here and
on uk.railway of people being sold the wrong ticket, including (IIRC
Southern) ticket machines issuing them with the wrong destination
despite the right request being made!

Furthermore even if you have the wrong ticket it might not ever have
got flagged up at the ticket gates - past posts have suggested that
the ticket gates at Kings Cross Thameslink were programmed very
liberally, given the shear variety of ticket types they could feasibly
encounter (an issue that has perhaps been transferred over to St
Pancras Int'l). I'm not going to dig around for it now but I certainly
recall posters reporting that "London Terminals" tickets from points
south were accepted by the gates at KX Thameslink even though they
shouldn't have been.

I had a similar incident not too long ago.

IIRC, I bought a Saver Return ticket to Gatwick from the ticket machine at
KX Thameslink, which listed Gatwick and London Terminals as my destinations.
Going through the gates and getting out to the airport was not a problem,
but the return was another story as the gates would not let me exit back at
KX Thameslink.

One of the attendents then told me that the ticket was not good as the
destination was London Terminals, although he waved me through.

So,

-- Why was I sold that ticket if there was going to be a probelm with my
getting back? Was it actually me who purchased the wrong ticket? If so, then
what ticket should I have purchased?

-- What significance does London Terminals have on tickets? I thought that
such a destination was good anywhere within London.

On Mar 3, 4:13 pm, (Colin Rosenstiel) wrote:
In article
,



(Mizter T) wrote:
On 3 Mar, 02:25, (Colin Rosenstiel) wrote:

In article

,
(Mr Thant) wrote:

On 3 Mar, 01:03, (Colin Rosenstiel) wrote:

I have to make a visit to FCC's central lost property office some
time soon. Will my Cambridge-London Terminals cheap day return
be valid to there (City Thameslink) via St Pancras International?

No. See page A4:
http://www.atoc.org/retail/_download...8_Common_A.pdf

"In addition London Terminals fares are NOT valid if travelling
beyond St. Pancras International from the north or beyond City
Thameslink from the south."

Curious. On this occasion I'll just cycle from King's Cross but the
latter point isn't consistent with the tickets I was sold for
Cambridge-London plus London-Brighton and return last year and in
2006. On both occasions I stayed in London overnight on the outward
journey and returned direct via King's Cross Thameslink.

I think one problem is that ticket office staff are not always au fait
with the rules themselves - there have been many past tales here and
on uk.railway of people being sold the wrong ticket, including (IIRC
Southern) ticket machines issuing them with the wrong destination
despite the right request being made!

Furthermore even if you have the wrong ticket it might not ever have
got flagged up at the ticket gates - past posts have suggested that
the ticket gates at Kings Cross Thameslink were programmed very
liberally, given the shear variety of ticket types they could feasibly
encounter (an issue that has perhaps been transferred over to St
Pancras Int'l). I'm not going to dig around for it now but I certainly
recall posters reporting that "London Terminals" tickets from points
south were accepted by the gates at KX Thameslink even though they
shouldn't have been.

In my case my tickets were never tested in the KX TL gates because if you
had any luggage (even in my case just shoulder bags on at least one
occasion) you had to use the manual gates where the staff just let me
through.


As some may know, I have Cambridge - London Terminals season ticket
and commute daily to Moorgate, using LU between KX and Moorgate.

I can confirm my ticket gets rejected by the gates at Barbican and
Farringdon (on the occasions when I tried that I used my pre-pay
Oyster instead to leave the station: that was in the days when you
weren't penalised for an unresolved journey).

However my ticket *does* open the gates at St Pancras Low Level,
despite my ticket not being valid there. (I only ever do this on the
occasions when KX Underground is closed due to overcrowding and
passengers are asked to divert to nearby stations).

PaulO

On 3 Mar, 21:19, Paul Oter wrote:

(snip)

As some may know, I have Cambridge - London Terminals season ticket
and commute daily to Moorgate, using LU between KX and Moorgate.

I can confirm my ticket gets rejected by the gates at Barbican and
Farringdon (on the occasions when I tried that I used my pre-pay
Oyster instead to leave the station: that was in the days when you
weren't penalised for an unresolved journey).

If I had such a ticket I would certainly have tested the gates as you
had done out of pure curiosity! You can of course perform such tests
if you are also in possession of a Day Travelcard or even an LU single
printed ticket - indeed you could also do so if you were willing to
take the £4 unresolved journey 'penalty' (though technically given
that the National Rail ticket isn't valid at intermediate one would be
breaking the strict letter of the rules).


However my ticket *does* open the gates at St Pancras Low Level,
despite my ticket not being valid there. (I only ever do this on the
occasions when KX Underground is closed due to overcrowding and
passengers are asked to divert to nearby stations).


Which would support a thought I had in my head - I'd wager that FCC
have merely copied the rules they used for the gates at KX Thameslink
and are using the same ones, unamended, for their new gates at St
Pancras Int'l low level. If this is the case then the London Terminals
tickets from points south that were erroneously accepted by the gates
at KX Thameslink might well also be accepted at St Pancras low level -
unless the rules were specified more tightly at some point since then.

wrote:

"Mizter T" wrote:

I think one problem is that ticket office staff are not always au fait
with the rules themselves - there have been many past tales here and
on uk.railway of people being sold the wrong ticket, including (IIRC
Southern) ticket machines issuing them with the wrong destination
despite the right request being made!

Furthermore even if you have the wrong ticket it might not ever have
got flagged up at the ticket gates - past posts have suggested that
the ticket gates at Kings Cross Thameslink were programmed very
liberally, given the shear variety of ticket types they could feasibly
encounter (an issue that has perhaps been transferred over to St
Pancras Int'l). I'm not going to dig around for it now but I certainly
recall posters reporting that "London Terminals" tickets from points
south were accepted by the gates at KX Thameslink even though they
shouldn't have been.

I had a similar incident not too long ago.

IIRC, I bought a Saver Return ticket to Gatwick from the ticket machine at
KX Thameslink, which listed Gatwick and London Terminals as my destinations.
Going through the gates and getting out to the airport was not a problem,
but the return was another story as the gates would not let me exit back at
KX Thameslink.

One of the attendents then told me that the ticket was not good as the
destination was London Terminals, although he waved me through.

So,

-- Why was I sold that ticket if there was going to be a problem with my
getting back? Was it actually me who purchased the wrong ticket? If so, then
what ticket should I have purchased?


Because the ticket machine was very badly programmed badly. Anyone
buying tickets at KX Thameslink for a trip to Gatwick quite obviously
wants to use Thameslink through central London to get there. The
ticket machine there shouldn't have even offered anything else.

A properly issued ticket for that journey would have specified Kings
Cross Thameslink as the named station of origin station (*not* London
Terminals).


-- What significance does London Terminals have on tickets? I thought that
such a destination was good anywhere within London.


They are not. Mr Thant set out the rules clearly upthread in the first
reply to Colin's post.

Look at the National Fares Manual section A - the relevant pages are
A4 and A5:
http://www.atoc.org/retail/_download...8_Common_A.pdf

The all important sentence from the National Fares Manual is this...

"In addition London Terminals fares are NOT valid if travelling beyond
St. Pancras International from the north or beyond City Thameslink
from the south."

The all important sentence from the National Fares Manual is this...

"In addition London Terminals fares are NOT valid if travelling beyond
St. Pancras International from the north or beyond City Thameslink
from the south."- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


So can I get a priv ticket from Radlett to Farringdon, or would I need
to get out at St Pancras International, surrender the ticket, then use
the oyster for the rest of the journey?

Burkey