On 28 Mar, 14:22, Andy wrote:

On Mar 28, 12:54 pm, Mizter T wrote:

Andy wrote:

On Mar 28, 9:12�am, Mizter T wrote:

(snip)

Though for those travelling via the ELLX to Canary Wharf from points
south I find it difficult to believe that anyone would do anything
other than change onto the Jubilee at Canada Water - going via
Whitechapel and Crossrail would entail staying on the ELLX for three
extra stops.

I was kind of forgetting Rotherhithe, Wapping and Shadwell on the
ELLX, however, the first two stations are very close together and
close to Canada Water!! The Crossrail station at Isle of Dogs will be
on the other side of Canary Wharf (it will be under West India Dock
between Canary Wharf and West India Quay, to the east of the West
Indix Quay DLR station ) from the Jubilee station and the extra time
spent on the ELLX train would be made up for any passengers heading to
the Northern side of the offices here.

Sorry Andy but I just don't buy that. Crossrail may have many benefits
but this is not going to be one of them.

Even if we take a worst case scenario that Rotherhithe and Wapping
might have to close at some point in the more distant future if there
is some plan for longer trains on the ELLX, the extra distance and
journey time from Canada Water to Whitechapel (with at least one stop
at Shadwell) just doesn't compare to a direct trip under the Thames
from Canada Water to Canary Wharf on the Jubilee. Passengers are not
going to choose to introduce this extra dogleg into their journey,
especially given the very easy interchange offered at Canada Water.

I also simply don't agree with your argument that the location of the
Isle of Dogs Crossrail station will be so advantageous that some
passengers will wish to choose it over the Jubilee line station - the
tube station really is hardly any distance away so only the *most*
stupid and lazy would possibly factor in these few saved paces and
decide to build there commute around that.

I think that you would be surprised that the number of passengers who
will do anything to avoid the tube!! I'm not saying it will be a large
number of people taking that route, but it won't be zero either.

You make a good point there, there are a sizeable number of people who
wish to avoid the tube, especially when it's busy, even if it is for
just one stop. I suppose against that I'd say that Crossrail should
relieve the overcrowding Jubilee line somewhat, and indeed Crossrail
could get just as busy as the Jubilee. Though there will be those
who'd always prefer to travel in a full sized carriage rather than a
tube sized one, even if it is similarly busy.

The other factor I hadn't really though about was people trying to get
seats. Those heading back home could conceivably travel via Crossrail
and Whitechapel in the hope that they'd be more likely to pick up a
seat on an ELLX train there rather than joining the scrum at Canada
Water. Whether they'd be many free seats remaining on a rush-hour
southbound ELLX after the City commuters got on board at Shoreditch
High Street remains to be seen!


Of course passengers traveling via the ELLX and the Jubilee will
benefit indirectly from Crossrail as it'll take the strain off the
overcrowded Jubilee line by removing passengers from points west.

I don't think it likely that Thameslink passengers from the south will
pass through London Bridge and go up to Farringdon for Crossrail
rather than changing to the Jubilee from London Bridge, though this
will certainly look like a good move for those coming from the
Wimbledon/Sutton loop (or other similar south London suburban start
points if the Thameslink service gets rejigged). Even if the
interchange at Farringdon is very easy,

I wasn't really thinking of the Thameslink passengers from the
Brighton / Croydon - London mainline, who as you say have
alternatives. I was thinking of the Wimbledon / Sutton loop (or
wherever in the future) passengers. Farringdon is only be a few
minutes from Blackfriars and connections will certainly be easier to
Docklands than they currently for the non London Bridge Thameslink
passengers.

Crossrail will be of benefit directly or indirectly (through relief of
overcrowding) for many Docklands commuters no doubt, but I don't think
it's that great an idea to try and shoehorn all potential Docklands-
bound journeys into somehow making use of Crossrail!