On Apr 2, 3:06*pm, Sarah Brown
wrote:
In article ,

Tim Roll-Pickering wrote:

Another problem is that a lot of TfL staff don't seem to know how to
correctly use Oyster at complicated stations like Stratford. There are
similar problems with the DLR - I've never been sure if one has to touch in
twice if starting at Stratford, or how to correctly change from a ticketed
mainline service to the DLR on Oyster. "Always touch in, always touch out"
becomes a meaningless mantra if you don't know which is which.

Yeah! Just when I feel I've got the hang of using Oyster PAYG in
tricky situations, a trip to Stratford feels like a trick question on
the "Oyster users' test".

When I've started or finished PAYG DLR journeys at Stratford, I've
only ever touched at the barrier with the outside world (by the NR
ticket window) and had no problems, although presumably if I'd touched
the readers on the platform as well (the old platform by the Central
and NR) it would have made no difference unless I hung around having a
cup of tea etc and I'd have two unresolved journeys.

MIG wrote:

When I've started or finished PAYG DLR journeys at Stratford, I've
only ever touched at the barrier with the outside world (by the NR
ticket window) and had no problems, although presumably if I'd touched
the readers on the platform as well (the old platform by the Central
and NR) it would have made no difference unless I hung around having a
cup of tea etc and I'd have two unresolved journeys.

I think a large part of the problem comes if you enter the station from one
of the lines. For example does someone changing between the Central and DLR
need to touch the readers on both platforms? What about someone who has to
come through the Jubilee barriers onto one of the other Oyster lines? What
about someone coming off the mainline from further east and starting to use
Oyster for the rest of their journey?

On Apr 2, 6:24*pm, "Tim Roll-Pickering" T.C.Roll-
wrote:
MIG wrote:
When I've started or finished PAYG DLR journeys at Stratford, I've
only ever touched at the barrier with the outside world (by the NR
ticket window) and had no problems, although presumably if I'd touched
the readers on the platform as well (the old platform by the Central
and NR) it would have made no difference unless I hung around having a
cup of tea etc and I'd have two unresolved journeys.

I think a large part of the problem comes if you enter the station from one
of the lines. For example does someone changing between the Central and DLR
need to touch the readers on both platforms? What about someone who has to
come through the Jubilee barriers onto one of the other Oyster lines? What
about someone coming off the mainline from further east and starting to use
Oyster for the rest of their journey?

Touching at the platform readers is only necessary when changing to or
from National Rail from or to either Central or DLR (and then only NR
east of Stratford?). But because that's deemed too complicated to
understand, one is encouraged to keep on and on touching at every
reader one passes, putting one at risk of potential unresolved
journeys.

MIG wrote:

Touching at the platform readers is only necessary when changing to or
from National Rail from or to either Central or DLR (and then only NR
east of Stratford?).

I was told one had to always specifically touch in and out for the DLR,
hence the tunnel readers at Bank.

National Rail services west of Stratford only go to Liverpool Street and
this section is covered by Oyster.

But because that's deemed too complicated to
understand, one is encouraged to keep on and on touching at every
reader one passes, putting one at risk of potential unresolved
journeys.

Indeed - hence the mass confusion.

On 2 Apr, 11:28, Sarah Brown
wrote:

In article ,
Mizter T wrote:

The first gateline would have already 'ended your journey' - however
going through the second gateline should not have been a problem at
all. Stratford is unique in having this double-gateline arrangement

I guess that's why I never encountered it before. Wonder how often
they get bemused passengers standing there in puzzlement?


Fairly often I reckon!


You certainly shouldn't get charged for an unresolved journey at all.

Incidentally you bought a zones 1-6 Day Travelcard just for a rail
journey to Enfield Lock (and back?) - no need! You could have just
bought a single or return rail ticket, or indeed a zones 2-6 Day
Travelcard (at £4.80) as appropriate.

No, I bought a CDR - that was 6 quid (or 10 with a network railcard)!


I know what went wrong here. You bought a Stratford to Enfield Lock
"via London" CDR - i.e. for a journey that would have routed you via
Liverpool Street. What you really wanted was a Stratford to Enfield
Lock "not London" ticket for a direct journey, which costs the
slightly more reasonable sum of £4.10.

I'm guessing you purchased from a ticket machine, based on your
comments about the Network Railcard price of £10, which is something
would only ever be presented as an option to a passenger by a machine
rather than a human (i.e. a ticket clerk, though perhaps some are on
the edge of being robots)!

I've no idea if the ticket machines at Stratford can be coaxed into
selling a Stratford to Enfield Lock "not London" ticket, though it's
would appear to be a shame that the machine seemingly didn't
explicitly flag up the two options ("via London" and "not London"), or
if it did, it didn't do so in an obvious enough manner.

That said if it was an LU ticket machine then I can quite imagine it
not being programmed to present or sell the two different fares
whatsoever (though the whole Network Railcard £10 fare business does
make it sound like one of NXEA's Scheidt & Bachmann machines, because
that's what they do).

As Mr Thant points out elsewhere, as well as the LU ticket office
there is also actually a "National Express East Anglia" (NXEA i.e.
TOC) ticket office at Stratford which should certainly have been able
to sort you out with the right ticket (though to the confusion of many
a tourist it won't sell NX coach tickets to Stratford!). The issue is
finding it - one must actually leave the main station building and
then turn left and left again, and it's in a quasi-shed tagged on to
the side of the main building.

The LU ticket office may well have been able to sell you the right
ticket too, though the LU windows at Stratford are always very busy
and they aren't ever going to be as au fait with mainland rail
ticketing as the NXEA ticket office next door. Indeed I'd recommend
most people to use the NXEA office as there's likely to be less of a
queue, they can now do Oyster top-ups, I guess they can sell LU single
tickets and they can certainly sell Day Travelcards. The only problem
might be getting stuck behind someone trying to buy tickets for some
incredibly complex pan-Britain rail journey!

On 2 Apr, 14:20, "Tim Roll-Pickering"
wrote:

Sarah Brown wrote:

(snip)

I tell her I've already touched out, and she asks where I came from,
and I tell her. She then says I have to touch out again, "to end my
journey", and buy a ticket.

Another problem is that a lot of TfL staff don't seem to know how to
correctly use Oyster at complicated stations like Stratford. There are
similar problems with the DLR - I've never been sure if one has to touch in
twice if starting at Stratford, or how to correctly change from a ticketed
mainline service to the DLR on Oyster. "Always touch in, always touch out"
becomes a meaningless mantra if you don't know which is which.

I don't think you should worry about it, I really don't. My impression
is that the system is designed to be tolerant of people touching-in or
out more than once at stations such as Stratford. I haven't tested
this thesis to destruction yet, but I certainly have tested it -
touching in or out twice at stations such as Highbury & Islington that
have gates and standalone Oyster readers within the gateline (aimed at
interchange passengers coming off/heading to National Rail services).

Some day I'll put my money where my mouth is and go to Stratford and
touch my Oyster everywhere to see just how tolerant the system really
is - but all most passengers are ever going to do is touch-in/out
twice, once at the gates and again on the DLR or Central line
platforms. I've done this to no ill effect, and if you stand close by
and watch the number of people who use these standalone readers for
just a short while it seems very clear (to me at least) that they
aren't all interchanging to/from National Rail services.

On Apr 3, 1:12*am, "Tim Roll-Pickering" T.C.Roll-
wrote:
MIG wrote:
Touching at the platform readers is only necessary when changing to or
from National Rail from or to either Central or DLR (and then only NR
east of Stratford?).

I was told one had to always specifically touch in and out for the DLR,
hence the tunnel readers at Bank.

The explanation for those does seem to be the possibility of arriving
via the lift without passing a gate. I've never had a problem with
not touching there. A touch at the DLR one end and LU the other end,
with no touch while changing, has always resulted in me being charged
for one LU/DLR journey at the right price.


National Rail services west of Stratford only go to Liverpool Street and
this section is covered by Oyster.

But because that's deemed too complicated to
understand, one is encouraged to keep on and on touching at every
reader one passes, putting one at risk of potential unresolved
journeys.

Indeed - hence the mass confusion.

On 3 Apr, 08:56, MIG wrote:
The explanation for those does seem to be the possibility of arriving
via the lift without passing a gate. *I've never had a problem with
not touching there. * A touch at the DLR one end and LU the other end,
with no touch while changing, has always resulted in me being charged
for one LU/DLR journey at the right price.

There's a big sign by the departures one at Bank that talks about "if
you're going outside your zones", so I think it's for people who have
a Travelcard and have arrived from somewhere ungated where they don't
need to touch in (Waterloo W&C?).

U

--
http://londonconnections.blogspot.com/
A blog about transport projects in London

On 3 Apr, 09:34, Mr Thant
wrote:

On 3 Apr, 08:56, MIG wrote:

The explanation for those does seem to be the possibility of arriving
via the lift without passing a gate. I've never had a problem with
not touching there. A touch at the DLR one end and LU the other end,
with no touch while changing, has always resulted in me being charged
for one LU/DLR journey at the right price.

There's a big sign by the departures one at Bank that talks about "if
you're going outside your zones", so I think it's for people who have
a Travelcard and have arrived from somewhere ungated where they don't
need to touch in (Waterloo W&C?).


Yes, that has to be it (and the W&C platforms at Waterloo are indeed
ungated). However if any such passengers touched-in at the beginning
of their journey (i.e. at the ungated Tube station, or touched-in on
transferring from National Rail to the Tube at say Ealing Broadway)
then they wouldn't need to do so again at Bank DLR. There's no harm in
providing some readers at Bank for this purpose anyway though.

In article ,
Tim Roll-Pickering wrote:
MIG wrote:

Touching at the platform readers is only necessary when changing to or
from National Rail from or to either Central or DLR (and then only NR
east of Stratford?).

I was told one had to always specifically touch in and out for the DLR,
hence the tunnel readers at Bank.

I've not used those when transfering tube-DLR and not had an
unresolved journey on touching out of the DLR, so it seems to be OK.