Not a part of London I frequent, but yesterday after training down
from Cambridge in the morning, going to an appointment in Hampstead,
followed by meeting friends in Lewisham (Tube + DLR), I needed to head
to a meeting near Enfield Lock station.

I realised my Oyster PAYG probably wouldn't be valid - no problem,
thinks I; I'll just get a paper ticket for the extra few stops.

Now if I'd had my wits about me in the morning, instead of buying my
usual CDR to London Terminals (11.90 with network railcard), I'd have
bought a one day travelcard and not bothered using my Oyster.

As it was, I found myself arriving at Stratford, already nicely Oyster
capped for the day, on a Jubilee Line train, and that's where the fun
starts.

I got off the train, touched out, and wandered round the foyer area
looking for a ticket machine. I couldn't find one, so went to look for
details of when my train was. The information provided there needs a
bit of detective work to put together - one set of boards provides the
times, but not the ultimate destination, so you can't just find your
train from the departure screens if, like me, you have no idea where
it's terminating. A second poster, elsewhere in the station, provides
a list of platform numbers for various destinations.

"Perhaps there will be a ticket machine on the platform?", I think,
and so head to Platform 12 for my train (which is waiting idly to
depart in 10 minutes time). No such luck, so I wander back to the
concourse, find a member of staff, and ask where the ticket machines
are. She points to one about 10 metres from me, in a part of the
station I hadn't even considered looking in, *because it's the other
side of a gateline*. "Just touch out and use that one", she says.

I tell her I've already touched out, and she asks where I came from,
and I tell her. She then says I have to touch out again, "to end my
journey", and buy a ticket.

I'm a bit incredulous about this, as I've never yet encountered the
situation where I have to go through two sets of gatelines to get out,
but I do so, and then buy my paper ticket (6 quid - I'm going entirely
within the travelcard zones, I'm already capped for the day - not
impressed), and use it to get back in through the barriers I just came
through. I'm now hoping I won't be charged for an unresolved journey.

What an utterly weird setup. Is there anywhere else on the network
where you have to go through two sets of gatelines to get out?

On 2 Apr, 07:27, Sarah Brown
wrote:

Not a part of London I frequent, but yesterday after training down
from Cambridge in the morning, going to an appointment in Hampstead,
followed by meeting friends in Lewisham (Tube + DLR), I needed to head
to a meeting near Enfield Lock station.

I realised my Oyster PAYG probably wouldn't be valid - no problem,
thinks I; I'll just get a paper ticket for the extra few stops.

Now if I'd had my wits about me in the morning, instead of buying my
usual CDR to London Terminals (11.90 with network railcard), I'd have
bought a one day travelcard and not bothered using my Oyster.

That would have been the best and most likely the cheapest solution.


As it was, I found myself arriving at Stratford, already nicely Oyster
capped for the day, on a Jubilee Line train, and that's where the fun
starts.

I got off the train, touched out, and wandered round the foyer area
looking for a ticket machine. I couldn't find one, so went to look for
details of when my train was. The information provided there needs a
bit of detective work to put together - one set of boards provides the
times, but not the ultimate destination, so you can't just find your
train from the departure screens if, like me, you have no idea where
it's terminating. A second poster, elsewhere in the station, provides
a list of platform numbers for various destinations.

I agree, the information as currently provided is somewhat shabby at
Sttratford.


"Perhaps there will be a ticket machine on the platform?", I think,
and so head to Platform 12 for my train (which is waiting idly to
depart in 10 minutes time). No such luck, so I wander back to the
concourse, find a member of staff, and ask where the ticket machines
are. She points to one about 10 metres from me, in a part of the
station I hadn't even considered looking in, *because it's the other
side of a gateline*. "Just touch out and use that one", she says.

There is actually a ticket machine within the fare paid area to the
right of the Jubilee line 'internal gateline' (as you are leaving the
Jubilee platforms), next to the current North London Line (aka London
Overground) Richmond-bound platform.


I tell her I've already touched out, and she asks where I came from,
and I tell her. She then says I have to touch out again, "to end my
journey", and buy a ticket.

The first gateline would have already 'ended your journey' - however
going through the second gateline should not have been a problem at
all. Stratford is unique in having this double-gateline arrangement
for Jubilee passengers (with the second 'internal gateline'), but it
has been set up correctly and so should work fine.


I'm a bit incredulous about this, as I've never yet encountered the
situation where I have to go through two sets of gatelines to get out,
but I do so, and then buy my paper ticket (6 quid - I'm going entirely
within the travelcard zones, I'm already capped for the day - not
impressed), and use it to get back in through the barriers I just came
through. I'm now hoping I won't be charged for an unresolved journey.


You certainly shouldn't get charged for an unresolved journey at all.

Incidentally you bought a zones 1-6 Day Travelcard just for a rail
journey to Enfield Lock (and back?) - no need! You could have just
bought a single or return rail ticket, or indeed a zones 2-6 Day
Travelcard (at £4.80) as appropriate.



What an utterly weird setup. Is there anywhere else on the network
where you have to go through two sets of gatelines to get out?


No. But that's what you have to do at Stratford.

On 2 Apr, 07:27, Sarah Brown
wrote:
I realised my Oyster PAYG probably wouldn't be valid - no problem,
thinks I; I'll just get a paper ticket for the extra few stops.

Just FYI Oyster is now valid as far as Tottenham Hale on that route,
though you'd have to get off the train and touch out to switch
tickets.

She points to one about 10 metres from me, in a part of the
station I hadn't even considered looking in, *because it's the other
side of a gateline*. "Just touch out and use that one", she says.

That's the main entrance to the station. The bit you call the "foyer"
is really just an interchange hall in the current setup, so you
weren't outside yet.

The lack of information is due to Stratford being a tube station.
There is a National Rail ticket office tacked on the side (outdoors,
as I recall) to the right as you enter the station. They might have
sold you a better ticket.

What an utterly weird setup. Is there anywhere else on the network
where you have to go through two sets of gatelines to get out?

If you get off the H&C at Paddington you'll reach one gateline to get
out onto the footbridge. If you continue along the footbridge and go
along platforms 2/3 or 4/5 to reach the concourse, you'll find
yourself inside another gateline, probably with a ticket that won't
activate them.

(this is entirely optional as neither set of gates encloses anything)

U

--
http://londonconnections.blogspot.com/
A blog about transport projects in London

In article ,
Mizter T wrote:

The first gateline would have already 'ended your journey' - however
going through the second gateline should not have been a problem at
all. Stratford is unique in having this double-gateline arrangement

I guess that's why I never encountered it before. Wonder how often
they get bemused passengers standing there in puzzlement?

You certainly shouldn't get charged for an unresolved journey at all.

Incidentally you bought a zones 1-6 Day Travelcard just for a rail
journey to Enfield Lock (and back?) - no need! You could have just
bought a single or return rail ticket, or indeed a zones 2-6 Day
Travelcard (at £4.80) as appropriate.

No, I bought a CDR - that was 6 quid (or 10 with a network railcard)!

In article ,
Mr Thant wrote:

That's the main entrance to the station. The bit you call the "foyer"
is really just an interchange hall in the current setup, so you
weren't outside yet.

How come you need to go through a gateline to get into it? Wouldn't
the style of optional readers they have at, e.g. Farringdon for
interchanging between tube and national rail work there for some
reason?

Sarah Brown wrote:
In article
,
Mr Thant wrote:

That's the main entrance to the station. The bit you call the "foyer"
is really just an interchange hall in the current setup, so you
weren't outside yet.

How come you need to go through a gateline to get into it? Wouldn't
the style of optional readers they have at, e.g. Farringdon for
interchanging between tube and national rail work there for some
reason?

If there weren't dual gating there would be another potentially large hole
in the LU paid area. Basically anyone arriving at Stratford off a longer
distance mainline service can already enter or leave the Central line
without a valid ticket, due to the 'convenient cross platform interchange'.
Like Farringdon and many other NR/LU stations of course.

IIRC from one of Paul Corfield's posts a while back, it was considered by
TfL that they didn't want this loophole for entry to the Jubilee line as
well. Which is why there is a separate gateline.

Fortunately for Oyster PAYG users like yourself wishing to leave and
re-enter at Stratford the 'interchange timer' seems to be set at 30 mins.

OTOH I was caught out there a while back when I left the station, shopped,
had a coffee and re-entered within 30 mins, my eventual touch out at Kings
Cross led to two unresolved journeys due to it being more than two hours
since I first started. Easily fixed though at a ticket office.

Paul S

On 2 Apr, 11:50, "Paul Scott" wrote:
*IIRC from one of Paul Corfield's posts a while back, it was considered by
TfL that they didn't want this loophole for entry to the Jubilee line as
well. Which is why there is a separate gateline.

Ah yes:
http://groups.google.co.uk/group/uk....b03078cd695c86
http://groups.google.co.uk/group/uk....64e004ec598737

(there's a model of Stratford with a circular ticket hall in Acton
Museum Depot, though the photo I have doesn't show any features Paul
describes)

U

--
http://londonconnections.blogspot.com/
A blog about transport projects in London

In article ,
(Sarah Brown) wrote:

No, I bought a CDR - that was 6 quid (or 10 with a network
railcard)!

That's the £10 minimum with the NC on weekdays now.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Sarah Brown wrote:

I got off the train, touched out, and wandered round the foyer area
looking for a ticket machine.

Problem one. Depending on how you look it at, Stratford either has a
concorse with a railway line in the middle or an interchange concourse that
you arrived in. The problem is no-one cares to make this clear to the
passenger who doesn't know the station or what to do.

I couldn't find one, so went to look for
details of when my train was. The information provided there needs a
bit of detective work to put together - one set of boards provides the
times, but not the ultimate destination, so you can't just find your
train from the departure screens if, like me, you have no idea where
it's terminating. A second poster, elsewhere in the station, provides
a list of platform numbers for various destinations.

Yes Stratford is dire for this sort of thing. A worse problem is that on
platform 8, the eastbound metro service, there are no indicators for a large
chunk at the east end of the platform, so you're reliant on either
announcements or walking down the platform to find it which stations peak
hour trains stop at (and that's when the platform is crowded beyond belief).
A favourite of the announcers is to override the destination announcement
with a generic "don't leave luggage" one because it's clearly not important
to tell people where the train is going.

I tell her I've already touched out, and she asks where I came from,
and I tell her. She then says I have to touch out again, "to end my
journey", and buy a ticket.

Another problem is that a lot of TfL staff don't seem to know how to
correctly use Oyster at complicated stations like Stratford. There are
similar problems with the DLR - I've never been sure if one has to touch in
twice if starting at Stratford, or how to correctly change from a ticketed
mainline service to the DLR on Oyster. "Always touch in, always touch out"
becomes a meaningless mantra if you don't know which is which.

In article ,
Tim Roll-Pickering wrote:

Another problem is that a lot of TfL staff don't seem to know how to
correctly use Oyster at complicated stations like Stratford. There are
similar problems with the DLR - I've never been sure if one has to touch in
twice if starting at Stratford, or how to correctly change from a ticketed
mainline service to the DLR on Oyster. "Always touch in, always touch out"
becomes a meaningless mantra if you don't know which is which.

Yeah! Just when I feel I've got the hang of using Oyster PAYG in
tricky situations, a trip to Stratford feels like a trick question on
the "Oyster users' test".