In message
Roland Perry wrote:

In message
, at
08:06:49 on Fri, 11 Apr 2008, John B remarked:
Oh dear there's currently a minimum connection time of 1 hour for BA
flights, having to transfer from terminal 4 to terminal 5 has blown
that. This is going to add several hours to many BA journeys.

Eh? Pre-T5, nearly all BA short-haul went out of T1 and nearly all
long-haul went out of T4.

Until June, nearly all short-haul will go out of T5 and nearly all
long-haul will go out of T4.

That's *exactly the same as it's been for the last 15 years*. It just
hasn't got better quite as soon as it was supposed to...

In the mean time, there will be passengers who have booked connecting
flights supposedly made newly-possible because both long and short haul
were at T5. They may have to re-book, or some very special transfer
arrangements made (I suppose they could bus them across the tarmac
having met them at the airbridge, but it's all a lot of faffing about).

Not impossible though, I've had a similar experience at Madrid when we got in
late from Heathrow for a connecting flight to Buenos Aires. There was about
half a dozen of us making the transfer so they opened the rear door on the
aircraft and we deplaned straight to a bus which took us across to the
international terminal.

--
Graeme Wall
This address is not read, substitute trains for rail.
Transport Miscellany at http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail/index.html

On Fri, 11 Apr 2008 16:33:39 +0100 someone who may be Roland Perry
wrote this:-

(I suppose they could bus them across the tarmac

BAA claimed it was impossible to operate a bus across the (seldom
used) secondary runway at Edinburgh airport. Absolutely impossible.
To be precise consultants acting for the former Scottish government
claimed that is what BAA had said.

This was all part of the assertion that the lunatic scheme for five
flat junctions and an underground station was the only sensible way
to get better public transport to the airport. Fortunately the
Labour Party were booted out of power at the election and that
scheme died with them. The current scheme is far more sensible, one
of the few sensible things the current bunch have done.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

In message , at 17:58:49 on Fri,
11 Apr 2008, Graeme Wall remarked:
In the mean time, there will be passengers who have booked connecting
flights supposedly made newly-possible because both long and short haul
were at T5. They may have to re-book, or some very special transfer
arrangements made (I suppose they could bus them across the tarmac
having met them at the airbridge, but it's all a lot of faffing about).

Not impossible though, I've had a similar experience at Madrid when we got in
late from Heathrow for a connecting flight to Buenos Aires. There was about
half a dozen of us making the transfer so they opened the rear door on the
aircraft and we deplaned straight to a bus which took us across to the
international terminal.

Of course it happens from time to time[1]. But having to potentially
organise it for a significant number of people on 50 flights every day
will get tiresome.

[1] I've had it happen to me once in 25 years, and at least once
conspicuous *not* happen almost causing me to miss a connection having
literally run a mile.
--
Roland Perry

In message
Roland Perry wrote:

In message , at 17:58:49 on Fri,
11 Apr 2008, Graeme Wall remarked:
In the mean time, there will be passengers who have booked connecting
flights supposedly made newly-possible because both long and short haul
were at T5. They may have to re-book, or some very special transfer
arrangements made (I suppose they could bus them across the tarmac
having met them at the airbridge, but it's all a lot of faffing about).

Not impossible though, I've had a similar experience at Madrid when we
got in late from Heathrow for a connecting flight to Buenos Aires. There
was about half a dozen of us making the transfer so they opened the rear
door on the aircraft and we deplaned straight to a bus which took us
across to the international terminal.

Of course it happens from time to time[1]. But having to potentially
organise it for a significant number of people on 50 flights every day
will get tiresome.

Tiresome agreed, I got the impression it was a fairly normal occurence at
Barajas. But then most things about that airport were tiresome, especially
Iberia.


[1] I've had it happen to me once in 25 years, and at least once
conspicuous *not* happen almost causing me to miss a connection having
literally run a mile.

Im suspect you have more experience than me in this field, living in the
south most of my long-haul flights are single hops either from LHR or LGW.

--
Graeme Wall
This address is not read, substitute trains for rail.
Transport Miscellany at http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail/index.html

Mizter T wrote:
(well, it's only Off Topic for uk.railway, very much On Topic for
uk.transport.london, but as I'm x-posting this...)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7342263.stm

A few choice quotes...

"British Airways has delayed moving most of its long-haul flights to
Heathrow's new Terminal 5 until June.
[...]
No date in June has yet been given for the move.

The delay in moving will have a knock-on effect on other airlines who
had been due to take over Terminal 4 once BA had left.
[...]
Sixty arrivals and 60 departures per day were due to be moved."

In an interview on the BBC Willie Walsh was also implying that the T4
move, when it happens, will be in more than one phase. Very sensible.

Watching BBC News 24 I think the current situation at T5 is being
misrepresented (this may well be because they wont let the cameras in
there), with phrases like "ongoing chaos" being used when it seems all
has been going pretty well from a passengers point of view since Tuesday.

To keep this vaguely on topic for uk.railway: In my visit to T5 the rail
links seemed to be operating like clockwork. In the HEX platforms
there's a train waiting for 10 out of 15 minutes (this train arrives and
departs from the same platform), and on the Piccadilly line as one train
departs the other arrives right behind it (with separate arrival and
departure platforms). The station is quite smart and lift access to
departures is quick and efficient (lifts operate in an automatic pattern
of platform, fast to departures then back down stopping at arrivals),
but direct escalator access is only to the arrivals level, where there
are more escalators to departures - not a quick or obvious route.

In message , at
15:18:23 on Sun, 13 Apr 2008, Philip Hardy
remarked:
phrases like "ongoing chaos" being used when it seems all has been
going pretty well from a passengers point of view since Tuesday.

I think people's perception may different, depending on whether they are
catching a flight on Tuesday, or still waiting for a bag that was lost a
fortnight ago.
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at
15:18:23 on Sun, 13 Apr 2008, Philip Hardy
remarked:
phrases like "ongoing chaos" being used when it seems all has been
going pretty well from a passengers point of view since Tuesday.

I think people's perception may different, depending on whether they are
catching a flight on Tuesday, or still waiting for a bag that was lost a
fortnight ago.

Quite true, however the chaos which caused said bags to go missing
happened two weeks ago. While they have not all been returned yet it
does not translate to "ongoing chaos" at the terminal.

In message , at
15:44:54 on Sun, 13 Apr 2008, Philip Hardy
remarked:
phrases like "ongoing chaos" being used when it seems all has been
going pretty well from a passengers point of view since Tuesday.
I think people's perception may different, depending on whether they
are catching a flight on Tuesday, or still waiting for a bag that was
lost a fortnight ago.

Quite true, however the chaos which caused said bags to go missing
happened two weeks ago. While they have not all been returned yet it
does not translate to "ongoing chaos" at the terminal.

If people dropped their lost bag off at the terminal, then they will
still perceive it as "chaos at the terminal", or at best "chaos at BA"
(which has spent a lot of money to identify itself with T5). They are
very unlikely to call it "chaos at an outsource operation in Milan".
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at
15:44:54 on Sun, 13 Apr 2008, Philip Hardy
remarked:
phrases like "ongoing chaos" being used when it seems all has been
going pretty well from a passengers point of view since Tuesday.
I think people's perception may different, depending on whether they
are catching a flight on Tuesday, or still waiting for a bag that
was lost a fortnight ago.

Quite true, however the chaos which caused said bags to go missing
happened two weeks ago. While they have not all been returned yet it
does not translate to "ongoing chaos" at the terminal.

If people dropped their lost bag off at the terminal, then they will
still perceive it as "chaos at the terminal", or at best "chaos at BA"
(which has spent a lot of money to identify itself with T5). They are
very unlikely to call it "chaos at an outsource operation in Milan".

That's not what I'm saying: Watching BBC News 24 you would have been
lead to believe that if you turned up at T5 there and then to catch a
flight you'd have faced queues, delays and cancellations and general
continuing chaos. This is a misrepresentation of the situation. Period.

I am well aware that past problems remain to be resolved and am not
commenting on the reporting of those at all - you brought that up.

Philip.

In message
Philip Hardy wrote:

[snip]

In an interview on the BBC Willie Walsh was also implying that the T4
move, when it happens, will be in more than one phase. Very sensible.

Watching BBC News 24 I think the current situation at T5 is being
misrepresented (this may well be because they wont let the cameras in
there), with phrases like "ongoing chaos" being used when it seems all
has been going pretty well from a passengers point of view since Tuesday.


Just shows how imposing censorship can be self-defeating.

--
Graeme Wall
This address is not read, substitute trains for rail.
Transport Miscellany at http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail/index.html