Spelthorne Councillors seek to choose Airtrack electrification
voltage. It reminds me of the days when London had conduit trams
because overhead wires were considered unsightly - but then at least
they owned the streets and the trams - unlike Spelthorne. This is
surely a technical rather than a political question. Note also Mr
Livingstone's response.

http://www.epsomguardian.co.uk/news/...r_airtrack.php

Quote

Concerns over Airtrack
By Chris Caulfield
There will be no overhead power cables on the Staines and Stanwell
moors, the council has vowed.
Preliminary Airtrack plans - designed to provide new rail access to
Heathrow from the south and west - were discussed at the meeting of
Spelthorne Council's executive committee on Tuesday.
It voted to strongly oppose overhead electrification on environmental
grounds.
Instead, the council will insist the entrance of Terminal 5 will be
where the shift from overhead to in-track power will come.
Airtrack could run across Spelthorne land worth as much as £15million.
Council leader John Packman said: "This is an extremely complex
consultation on a very large scheme which would increase the
proportion of air travellers, staff and visitors using public
transport to get to and from the airport.
"The council has taken some considerable time to provide a detailed
assessment of these proposals.
"It is too early to give an overall view about Airtrack as a whole and
we will not do that until we have seen the proposals in full, but our
comments thus far reflect the many issues and concerns that a project
of this size raises."
The consultation covered track alignment options, station locations
and engineering issues at key Spelthorne sites.
The executive also considered the impact on Staines town centre.
It voted to support track alignment that minimised the loss of common
and SSSI land.
The council rejected BAA's station placement options and instead
proposed more visible locations.
Quizzed in the yourlocalguardian newsroom earlier this week, London
Mayor Ken Livingstone said Airtrack sounded "a lovely idea" but he had
not received any formal presentation of the plans.
He said before he could give it his support, he would need to see the
full financial details and also the impact on nearby residents.
"It's one of the those schemes that have been around forever," Mr
Livingstone said.
"In principle it sounds a lovely idea.
"(But) I have yet to have any proposals from anyone.
"I'm not sure they've got the money for it.
"And you'd need to know the impacts on the area it goes through."
unquote

On Apr 20, 7:24�am, Mwmbwls wrote:
Spelthorne Councillors seek to choose Airtrack electrification
voltage. It reminds me of the days when London had conduit trams
because overhead wires were considered unsightly - but then at least
they owned the streets and the trams - unlike Spelthorne. This is
surely a technical rather than a political question. Note also Mr
Livingstone's response.

I don't know the details of the scheme but if it is new build I doubt
thrird rail would be allowed. If it is allowed as an "infill" I hope
the councillors take on the job of delivering the death messages to
parents when the kiddywinkies get zapped.

George

Mwmbwls wrote:

Preliminary Airtrack plans - designed to provide new rail access to
Heathrow from the south and west - were discussed at the meeting of
Spelthorne Council's executive committee on Tuesday.
It voted to strongly oppose overhead electrification on environmental
grounds.

That's rich, coming from the council that did a U-turn and voted in favour
of Heathrow expansion. They don't mind destroying someone else's village
and forcing environmental damage on thousands of West London residents, but
they don't want the view of their sodding bit of grass spoilt.
--
Richard J.
(to email me, swap 'uk' and 'yon' in address)

Richard J. wrote:
Mwmbwls wrote:

Preliminary Airtrack plans - designed to provide new rail access to
Heathrow from the south and west - were discussed at the meeting of
Spelthorne Council's executive committee on Tuesday.
It voted to strongly oppose overhead electrification on environmental
grounds.

That's rich, coming from the council that did a U-turn and voted in favour
of Heathrow expansion. They don't mind destroying someone else's village
and forcing environmental damage on thousands of West London residents, but
they don't want the view of their sodding bit of grass spoilt.

Isn't there something like a ten lane sodding motorway right next to the
Airtrack route? I hadn't realised quite how much the Tories still
loathed public transport until the current Mayoral election, but this is
all of a piece with it.

t

Tom Barry wrote:

Isn't there something like a ten lane sodding motorway right next to the
Airtrack route? I hadn't realised quite how much the Tories still
loathed public transport...

Why is that surprising? Public transport encourages the plebs to travel,
which is really not on ;-)
--
Jeremy Double
{real email address, include the nospam!}
Steam and transport photos at:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jmdoubl...7603834894248/

On 20 Apr, 10:24, furnessvale wrote:
when the kiddywinkies get zapped.

Surely it's 25 kv that onomatopoeically "zaps" people - 750 v DC
silently roasts 'em. (Except in TV dramas and films) ;-)

furnessvale wrote:
On Apr 20, 7:24?am, Mwmbwls wrote:
Spelthorne Councillors seek to choose Airtrack electrification
voltage. It reminds me of the days when London had conduit trams
because overhead wires were considered unsightly - but then at least
they owned the streets and the trams - unlike Spelthorne. This is
surely a technical rather than a political question. Note also Mr
Livingstone's response.

I don't know the details of the scheme but if it is new build I doubt
thrird rail would be allowed. If it is allowed as an "infill" I hope
the councillors take on the job of delivering the death messages to
parents when the kiddywinkies get zapped.


It definitely ought to be allowed as infill of the third rail network - it
is only about 2 miles from the point the route leaves the Windsor line to
the buffer stops under T5, and they aren't going to add overheads all the
way to Reading, Guildford and Waterloo...

The recent report (we discussed it a few weeks ago) just reckons there are
'technical difficulties' in running on third rail all the way into T5 - so
what are these? The basic airtrack scheme has trains running into
terminating platforms which are separate from the existing HEx platforms.

Clearly there will be other voltage changeover issues if HEx is run all the
way to Staines as well (which IIRC is the only scenario that has OHLE into
Staines.

I think Livingstone is doing the status of the project down a bit - if
Spelthorne council are already dealing with consultation issues at commitee
level. The fact he hasn't had a personal presentation on the subject doesn't
mean the consultation (documents easily found on the www) isn't happening...

Paul S

In uk.railway Mwmbwls wrote:
Spelthorne Councillors seek to choose Airtrack electrification
voltage. It reminds me of the days when London had conduit trams
because overhead wires were considered unsightly - but then at least
they owned the streets and the trams - unlike Spelthorne. This is
surely a technical rather than a political question. Note also Mr
Livingstone's response.

Airtrack's going to have to have a voltage changeover point somewhere. The
council have suggested it should be at T5 for environmental reasons. I
don't see a problem with them saying that, if it is just a proposal. There
may well be technical, operational or other reasons which means third rail
is impractical or costly on that stretch but that's for the developers to
make a case for.

The council have stated their opinion. Often planning ends up being
something of a compromise; you have to start from some negotiating positions
so you can then move towards that compromise. The negotiating positions are
by definition more extreme (at both sides) than the compromise.

Theo

"Theo Markettos" wrote

Airtrack's going to have to have a voltage changeover point somewhere.
The
council have suggested it should be at T5 for environmental reasons. I
don't see a problem with them saying that, if it is just a proposal.
There
may well be technical, operational or other reasons which means third rail
is impractical or costly on that stretch but that's for the developers to
make a case for.

Airtrack, as currently planned, will terminate at T5. It has been stated
that the tunnel approach to the station, and the Airtrack platforms at T5
will have to be 25kV OHLE, though I haven't seen an explanation of why this
is so. This being the case, there will have to be a voltage change somewhere
between Staines and T5. It would seem to make sense, in the longer term, for
Airtrack and Heathrow Express and/or Crossrail to link up, with through
running, which of course would require dual-voltage stock and a voltage
change somewhere. An intermediate possibility is for HEx to be extended to
Staines.

Peter

Jeremy Double wrote:
Tom Barry wrote:

Isn't there something like a ten lane sodding motorway right next to
the Airtrack route? I hadn't realised quite how much the Tories
still loathed public transport...

Why is that surprising? Public transport encourages the plebs to travel,
which is really not on ;-)

That's buses. But this is a train!

--
Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK