On 25 Apr, 11:59, "Peter Masson" wrote:
"MIG" wrote

It would be a handy new connection if they did. *At the moment, there
are a few services which, in lieu of being ecs, just start at Hither
Green and provide extra frequency between London Bridge and Waterloo,
which is a peak flow for people going south west.

Maybe the equivalents of those will be able to divert through, and
call at, Lewisham as well.

AIUI the RUS envisages that the peak service will consist as far as possible
of the off-peak service plus peak extras, rather than what has been the case
on the South eastern network up till now, i.e. until the 1970s London Bridge
resignalling a standard pattern off-peak service but no discernible peak
pattern at all, and since the resignalling a 20-minute peak cycle (later
eased to 21 minutes when BR invented the 63 minute hour) which bears no
discenible relation to the off-peak pattern. If this is the case the
Bexleyheath route, and North Kent via Woolwich and Lewisham, will get
contra-peak Charing Cross services via the doubled Tanners Hill spur. If
they manage to get this right it will mean that the only stations not to get
Charing Cross trains, but only Cannon Street, will be the four from
Westcombe Park to Deptford, though these won't get any Charing Cross trains
at all, at any time of the day.

That sounds a bit like the SWT situation, where the peak has a couple
of extras and minor retimings but is basically the same as the off-
peak.

Lewisham could do with less tph in the off-peak if only they weren't
all bunched together as at present with long gaps between bunches.
(Even in the peak direction there are less tph than in the off-peak,
but not necessarily longer gaps.)

As for Greenwich, I can see the operational benefits but (as with
splitting the Northern Line) I do wonder if there is too much emphasis
on the flow of vehicles and not enough consideration for the journeys
of people. Changing at London Bridge is already a nightmare bordering
on dangerous at times.

"MIG" wrote

As for Greenwich, I can see the operational benefits but (as with
splitting the Northern Line) I do wonder if there is too much emphasis
on the flow of vehicles and not enough consideration for the journeys
of people. Changing at London Bridge is already a nightmare bordering
on dangerous at times.

Once the Thameslink project has happened, to get a Greenwich train to
Charing Cross would involllve crossing to the Thameslink lines at Spa Road,
presumably calling at the Thameslink platforms at London Bridge, then
crossing to the Charing Cross lines at Metropolitan Junction. As long as
there are Charing Cross trains from the North Kent line via Lewisham I think
on balance it is the right decision to send all Greenwich route trains to
Cannon Street, and make the comparatively small number of passengers from
Westcombe park to Deptford for Waterloo East and Charing Cross change at
London Bridge. AIUI the rebuilt London Bridge is being designed for the
number of people who will use it, and having two up Charing Cross platforms
will on its own be a tremendous advantage (See Bill Hayles' posts about
despatching slammers from this platform in the morning peak).

Peter

On Thu, 24 Apr 2008 19:50:26 +0100, "Peter Masson"
wrote:

The 1976 evening peak timetable included 28 tph from Charing Cross, but of
these 3 crossed at Spa Road and ran via Greenwich, and 3 crossed to the Slow
Line at North Kent East, so only 22 ran on the Fast Line at Tanners Hill
Junction.6 of these ran via the spur. On the Up Fast there were 22 trains
through Tanners Hill Junction (these had to cross the 6 down via the spur),
with another 3 coming via Greenwich and crossing at Spa Road.

But let's not forget that the much vaunted "completely rewritten and
improved" 1976 timetable was a complete cock-up, and it wasn't until the
1980s and the introduction of the 66 minute hour that things really
sorted themselves out.

28tph through the 2 track section just didn't work.


--
Bill Hayles
http://www.rossrail.com

On Apr 27, 11:34*am, Bill Hayles wrote:
On Thu, 24 Apr 2008 19:50:26 +0100, "Peter Masson"

wrote:
The 1976 evening peak timetable included 28 tph from Charing Cross, but of
these 3 crossed at Spa Road and ran via Greenwich, and 3 crossed to the Slow
Line at North Kent East, so only 22 ran on the Fast Line at Tanners Hill
Junction.6 of these ran via the spur. On the Up Fast there were 22 trains
through Tanners Hill Junction (these had to cross the 6 down via the spur),
with another 3 coming via Greenwich and crossing at Spa Road.

But let's not forget that the much vaunted "completely rewritten and
improved" 1976 timetable was a complete cock-up, and it wasn't until the
1980s and the introduction of the 66 minute hour that things really
sorted themselves out.

28tph through the 2 track section just didn't work.


Was that the main problem? I ask because the morning timetable didn't
go 66-minute when the evening timetable did, and I wondered if it was
because the Tanner's Hill Spur is much more useful in the
"up" (downhill) direction (not crossing the track it doesn't join),
with more flat crossing movements needed in the evening for the same
number of services.