On Sat, 10 May 2008 02:48:16 -0700 (PDT), CJB
wrote:

The people that the cash fares catch are hapless tourists. This is
especially so on the N9 out of Heathrow - the ONLY public transport
after HEX and Connect and the Tube have shut down. Then tourists might
arrive on a late flight, and having just visited an ATM only have £10
notes (or worse £20s). When I used to work at LHR I witnessed hundreds
of times a stroppy bus driver refusing to allow a tourist (usually
with luggage) to board because said driver did not have any change.
They don't have a float when they start their shifts. Most airport
workers use Oyster. So the lack of cash change is a real problem. The
situation would be marginally better if the airlines sold Oyster cards
on board, or if Oysters could be bought from vending machines. Even
ticket machines would be useful at Heathrow Central - but there are
none there. Rip-off Britain again. CJB.

While not excusing the poor attitude of the bus drivers concerning
change giving I think people are just refusing to recognise that London
is far from unique in appearing awkward to tourists. I cannot think of
a single transport organisation in a major city that I have visited that
does not attempt to sell a premium priced, restricted availability
product to tourists. I believe London has, at last, got rid of the
premium priced Tourist Travelcard. I can't think of a city anywhere that
makes it easy for people with loads of fresh, high denomination currency
to use standard public transport services. Many systems are farebox no
change, exact fare only or else charge a direct premium for cash
acceptance or force you to pay off system anyway. If people think
London's buses and tubes are awkward or impenetrable then try Rome! Try
to find the public transport at Singapore Airport, try to find a NYC
transit bus to take you into town at JFK in NYC.

In my experience the only way you get access to the cheap, every day
tickets is to do a bit of research beforehand. I don't recall who it
was, in another post, that said you were basically a bit stupid or else
a raving transport loony to do this but it's the only way IME to get a
decent priced ticket. I'm not saying this is right btw - I'm simply
saying that London is far from being unique in seeming difficult or
discriminatory of its treatment of visitors.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

On 10 May, 11:17, Paul Corfield wrote:
premium priced Tourist Travelcard. I can't think of a city anywhere that
makes it easy for people with loads of fresh, high denomination currency
to use standard public transport services. Many systems are farebox no

Paris - queue at the ticket office at the gare du nord , buy a Mobilis
(or whatever they're calling it this year). Sorted.

Kiev - queue at ticket office , buy tokens.

New York - ditto above , or you can get the equivalent of a
travelcard, can't remember its name.

Brussels - ticket machines accept notes and give change.

etc etc

to find the public transport at Singapore Airport, try to find a NYC
transit bus to take you into town at JFK in NYC.

Or do what everyone else does and get the airtrain or local bus to
howard beach subway station.

B2003

In message
, at
04:39:21 on Sat, 10 May 2008, Boltar remarked:

premium priced Tourist Travelcard. I can't think of a city anywhere that
makes it easy for people with loads of fresh, high denomination currency
to use standard public transport services. Many systems are farebox no

Paris - queue at the ticket office at the gare du nord , buy a Mobilis
(or whatever they're calling it this year). Sorted.

Kiev - queue at ticket office , buy tokens.

New York - ditto above , or you can get the equivalent of a
travelcard, can't remember its name.

Brussels - ticket machines accept notes and give change.

Depends where you are. Before they replaced the old machines when the
Euro came in, it was coins or nothing. Amsterdam is getting better, but
their machines don't take notes, many don't take credit cards (even
though they claim to) and the local smart-card money dominates.

etc etc

Yep, different at every place.

to find the public transport at Singapore Airport, try to find a NYC
transit bus to take you into town at JFK in NYC.

Or do what everyone else does and get the airtrain or local bus to
howard beach subway station.

Local knowledge, again.
--
Roland Perry

On Sat, 10 May 2008 04:39:21 -0700 (PDT), Boltar
wrote:

On 10 May, 11:17, Paul Corfield wrote:
premium priced Tourist Travelcard. I can't think of a city anywhere that
makes it easy for people with loads of fresh, high denomination currency
to use standard public transport services. Many systems are farebox no

Paris - queue at the ticket office at the gare du nord , buy a Mobilis
(or whatever they're calling it this year). Sorted.

Heathrow - queue at the underground ticket office at Heathrow Central,
T4 or T5 and buy a One Day Travelcard or Bus Pass. Isn't that the
same? And, with a bit of luck, you'll find a queue shorter than at
the Gare du Nord.

Next time I travel through Heathrow I will try to imagine what it's
like for a tourist and see how easy, if indeed at all possible, it is
to buy an Oyster card, a one-day ticket underground or bus single
before leaving the airport. I remember there used to be ticket
machines in some baggage reclaim halls - I would hope to still find
them, with Oyster vending machines.

My usual bus route home is the X26 and I've apologised before -
pre-Oyster - about only having notes, still, they seem used to that
sort of thing. It would be the easiest thing in the world to have
both Oyster and single bus fare ticket machines (not the poor spec
roadside ones) in the Heathrow bus stations.

Richard.

On May 10, 11:34 pm, Richard wrote:
Paris - queue at the ticket office at the gare du nord , buy a Mobilis
(or whatever they're calling it this year). Sorted.

Heathrow - queue at the underground ticket office at Heathrow Central,
T4 or T5 and buy a One Day Travelcard or Bus Pass. Isn't that the
same?

Yes , except in Paris you won't get stitched for twice the price for
being a tourist and just buying a paper ticket.

B2003

In message , at 11:17:20 on
Sat, 10 May 2008, Paul Corfield remarked:
I can't think of a city anywhere that makes it easy for people with
loads of fresh, high denomination currency to use standard public
transport services.

They've solved that in Geneva, where previously you had to have the
somewhat unlikely amount of 3 Francs in coins only, by giving all
arrivals at the airport a free bus/tram/train ticket to the City centre.

In Lisbon you can buy a voucher (for about a tenner) which will pay for
a taxi ride from the airport to anywhere in the city.

A useful scheme would be an EU-wide voucher for a "bus/train/tram ticket
from airport to anywhere in that City" for about 5 Euros, and you could
buy a book of them in any place and use them later. In most towns you
could do better ad-hoc, but at least you'd never be stranded.
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 11:17:20 on
Sat, 10 May 2008, Paul Corfield remarked:
I can't think of a city anywhere that makes it easy for people with
loads of fresh, high denomination currency to use standard public
transport services.

They've solved that in Geneva, where previously you had to have the
somewhat unlikely amount of 3 Francs in coins only, by giving all
arrivals at the airport a free bus/tram/train ticket to the City centre.

In Lisbon you can buy a voucher (for about a tenner) which will pay for
a taxi ride from the airport to anywhere in the city.

A useful scheme would be an EU-wide voucher for a "bus/train/tram ticket
from airport to anywhere in that City" for about 5 Euros,

London Ashford airport? Or even Luton and Stansted.

and you could
buy a book of them in any place and use them later. In most towns you
could do better ad-hoc, but at least you'd never be stranded.

My favourite was Ryanair's place in Sardinia, where you get the bus for
free (or at least people with hand baggage do, others got left behind),
but half way to the town it stops at a road-side florists where you buy
the tickets and get back on. Of course the florist had "no change". Some
of us made ourselves unpopular with the natives by clubbing together and
buying (say) 10 tickets with a single EUR10 note, those of us with loose
change then sorting the change out among the people on the bus :-)

--
Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK

In message , at
18:55:21 on Sat, 10 May 2008, Arthur Figgis

I can't think of a city anywhere that makes it easy for people with
loads of fresh, high denomination currency to use standard public
transport services.
They've solved that in Geneva, where previously you had to have the
somewhat unlikely amount of 3 Francs in coins only, by giving all
arrivals at the airport a free bus/tram/train ticket to the City centre.
In Lisbon you can buy a voucher (for about a tenner) which will pay
for a taxi ride from the airport to anywhere in the city.
A useful scheme would be an EU-wide voucher for a "bus/train/tram
ticket from airport to anywhere in that City" for about 5 Euros,

London Ashford airport? Or even Luton and Stansted.

It's always going to be more difficult for London because the PT prices
are so much higher anyway. But if I can get a bus from the airport into
the centre of Berlin for £1.50, or a train from Schiphol to Amsterdam
for £2.60, or Brussels Airport to City Centre for £2.10, then I think we
should make more of an effort (for people with air tickets to prove
entitlement to the flat rate fare).

--
Roland Perry

In article , Paul Corfield
writes
I can't think of a city anywhere that
makes it easy for people with loads of fresh, high denomination currency
to use standard public transport services.

Tokyo: at a metro station somewhere in the centre, the machine happily
accepted my approx-50-pound banknote and issued ticket and (approx 49
pounds 50) change.

--
Clive D.W. Feather | Home:
Tel: +44 20 8495 6138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org
Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work:
Please reply to the Reply-To address, which is:

Clive D. W. Feather wrote:
In article , Paul Corfield
writes
I can't think of a city anywhere that
makes it easy for people with loads of fresh, high denomination currency
to use standard public transport services.

Tokyo: at a metro station somewhere in the centre, the machine happily
accepted my approx-50-pound banknote and issued ticket and (approx 49
pounds 50) change.

Is it true that the Japanese don't really go in for payment by card, and
happily carry around large amounts of cash instead?


--
Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK