On May 6, 10:10*am, Boltar wrote:
I had to use a bus on the w/e and found that my pre pay had run out.
It cost me 2 quid to go 1 mile because I had to pay by cash. Is that
fair? I don't think so. Same story on the tube.

I think one of the first things boris should at is ditch Kens
idiotic , deliberate and spiteful disparity between the Oyster and
cash fares to deliberately force occasional commuters to use Oyster to
no benefit to themselves but every benefit to TfL.

B2003

The people that the cash fares catch are hapless tourists. This is
especially so on the N9 out of Heathrow - the ONLY public transport
after HEX and Connect and the Tube have shut down. Then tourists might
arrive on a late flight, and having just visited an ATM only have £10
notes (or worse £20s). When I used to work at LHR I witnessed hundreds
of times a stroppy bus driver refusing to allow a tourist (usually
with luggage) to board because said driver did not have any change.
They don't have a float when they start their shifts. Most airport
workers use Oyster. So the lack of cash change is a real problem. The
situation would be marginally better if the airlines sold Oyster cards
on board, or if Oysters could be bought from vending machines. Even
ticket machines would be useful at Heathrow Central - but there are
none there. Rip-off Britain again. CJB.

On Sat, 10 May 2008 02:48:16 -0700 (PDT), CJB
wrote:

The people that the cash fares catch are hapless tourists. This is
especially so on the N9 out of Heathrow - the ONLY public transport
after HEX and Connect and the Tube have shut down. Then tourists might
arrive on a late flight, and having just visited an ATM only have £10
notes (or worse £20s). When I used to work at LHR I witnessed hundreds
of times a stroppy bus driver refusing to allow a tourist (usually
with luggage) to board because said driver did not have any change.
They don't have a float when they start their shifts. Most airport
workers use Oyster. So the lack of cash change is a real problem. The
situation would be marginally better if the airlines sold Oyster cards
on board, or if Oysters could be bought from vending machines. Even
ticket machines would be useful at Heathrow Central - but there are
none there. Rip-off Britain again. CJB.

While not excusing the poor attitude of the bus drivers concerning
change giving I think people are just refusing to recognise that London
is far from unique in appearing awkward to tourists. I cannot think of
a single transport organisation in a major city that I have visited that
does not attempt to sell a premium priced, restricted availability
product to tourists. I believe London has, at last, got rid of the
premium priced Tourist Travelcard. I can't think of a city anywhere that
makes it easy for people with loads of fresh, high denomination currency
to use standard public transport services. Many systems are farebox no
change, exact fare only or else charge a direct premium for cash
acceptance or force you to pay off system anyway. If people think
London's buses and tubes are awkward or impenetrable then try Rome! Try
to find the public transport at Singapore Airport, try to find a NYC
transit bus to take you into town at JFK in NYC.

In my experience the only way you get access to the cheap, every day
tickets is to do a bit of research beforehand. I don't recall who it
was, in another post, that said you were basically a bit stupid or else
a raving transport loony to do this but it's the only way IME to get a
decent priced ticket. I'm not saying this is right btw - I'm simply
saying that London is far from being unique in seeming difficult or
discriminatory of its treatment of visitors.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

On 10 May, 11:17, Paul Corfield wrote:
premium priced Tourist Travelcard. I can't think of a city anywhere that
makes it easy for people with loads of fresh, high denomination currency
to use standard public transport services. Many systems are farebox no

Paris - queue at the ticket office at the gare du nord , buy a Mobilis
(or whatever they're calling it this year). Sorted.

Kiev - queue at ticket office , buy tokens.

New York - ditto above , or you can get the equivalent of a
travelcard, can't remember its name.

Brussels - ticket machines accept notes and give change.

etc etc

to find the public transport at Singapore Airport, try to find a NYC
transit bus to take you into town at JFK in NYC.

Or do what everyone else does and get the airtrain or local bus to
howard beach subway station.

B2003

In message
, at
04:39:21 on Sat, 10 May 2008, Boltar remarked:

premium priced Tourist Travelcard. I can't think of a city anywhere that
makes it easy for people with loads of fresh, high denomination currency
to use standard public transport services. Many systems are farebox no

Paris - queue at the ticket office at the gare du nord , buy a Mobilis
(or whatever they're calling it this year). Sorted.

Kiev - queue at ticket office , buy tokens.

New York - ditto above , or you can get the equivalent of a
travelcard, can't remember its name.

Brussels - ticket machines accept notes and give change.

Depends where you are. Before they replaced the old machines when the
Euro came in, it was coins or nothing. Amsterdam is getting better, but
their machines don't take notes, many don't take credit cards (even
though they claim to) and the local smart-card money dominates.

etc etc

Yep, different at every place.

to find the public transport at Singapore Airport, try to find a NYC
transit bus to take you into town at JFK in NYC.

Or do what everyone else does and get the airtrain or local bus to
howard beach subway station.

Local knowledge, again.
--
Roland Perry

On Sat, 10 May 2008 04:39:21 -0700 (PDT), Boltar
wrote:

On 10 May, 11:17, Paul Corfield wrote:
premium priced Tourist Travelcard. I can't think of a city anywhere that
makes it easy for people with loads of fresh, high denomination currency
to use standard public transport services. Many systems are farebox no

Paris - queue at the ticket office at the gare du nord , buy a Mobilis
(or whatever they're calling it this year). Sorted.

Heathrow - queue at the underground ticket office at Heathrow Central,
T4 or T5 and buy a One Day Travelcard or Bus Pass. Isn't that the
same? And, with a bit of luck, you'll find a queue shorter than at
the Gare du Nord.

Next time I travel through Heathrow I will try to imagine what it's
like for a tourist and see how easy, if indeed at all possible, it is
to buy an Oyster card, a one-day ticket underground or bus single
before leaving the airport. I remember there used to be ticket
machines in some baggage reclaim halls - I would hope to still find
them, with Oyster vending machines.

My usual bus route home is the X26 and I've apologised before -
pre-Oyster - about only having notes, still, they seem used to that
sort of thing. It would be the easiest thing in the world to have
both Oyster and single bus fare ticket machines (not the poor spec
roadside ones) in the Heathrow bus stations.

Richard.

On May 10, 11:34 pm, Richard wrote:
Paris - queue at the ticket office at the gare du nord , buy a Mobilis
(or whatever they're calling it this year). Sorted.

Heathrow - queue at the underground ticket office at Heathrow Central,
T4 or T5 and buy a One Day Travelcard or Bus Pass. Isn't that the
same?

Yes , except in Paris you won't get stitched for twice the price for
being a tourist and just buying a paper ticket.

B2003

On 12 May, 09:30, Boltar wrote:
Paris - queue at the ticket office at the gare du nord , buy a Mobilis
(or whatever they're calling it this year). Sorted.

Heathrow - queue at the underground ticket office at Heathrow Central,
T4 or T5 and buy a One Day Travelcard or Bus Pass. Isn't that the
same?

Yes , except in Paris you won't get stitched for twice the price for
being a tourist and just buying a paper ticket.

ODTCs only cost about 50p more than the daily Oyster Prepay cap [which
reflects the fact that Prepay isn't valid on all NR services].

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org

Boltar wrote:
On May 10, 11:34 pm, Richard wrote:
Paris - queue at the ticket office at the gare du nord , buy a Mobilis
(or whatever they're calling it this year). Sorted.
Heathrow - queue at the underground ticket office at Heathrow Central,
T4 or T5 and buy a One Day Travelcard or Bus Pass. Isn't that the
same?

Yes , except in Paris you won't get stitched for twice the price for
being a tourist and just buying a paper ticket.

If you're a tourist, RATP will try to sell you the overpriced Paris
Visite card instead of a Carte Orange. The cheapest Paris Visite cards
for a whole week (Zones 1-3) would cost EUR 41.50. Whereas a Carte
Orange would cost only 16.30 for 1-2 (and there is little of interest to
a tourist in zone 3) or 21.60 for 1-3.

So I think Paris can safely be added to the list of people who try to
rip off tourists.
--
Michael Hoffman

On May 12, 2:14 pm, Michael Hoffman wrote:
If you're a tourist, RATP will try to sell you the overpriced Paris
Visite card instead of a Carte Orange. The cheapest Paris Visite cards
for a whole week (Zones 1-3) would cost EUR 41.50. Whereas a Carte
Orange would cost only 16.30 for 1-2 (and there is little of interest to
a tourist in zone 3) or 21.60 for 1-3.

Yes , but the visite card gets you discounts of a shed load of
tourists sights unlike the normal tickets. Depending on where you
visit in a week it could save you a lot of money.

B2003

In message , at 11:17:20 on
Sat, 10 May 2008, Paul Corfield remarked:
I can't think of a city anywhere that makes it easy for people with
loads of fresh, high denomination currency to use standard public
transport services.

They've solved that in Geneva, where previously you had to have the
somewhat unlikely amount of 3 Francs in coins only, by giving all
arrivals at the airport a free bus/tram/train ticket to the City centre.

In Lisbon you can buy a voucher (for about a tenner) which will pay for
a taxi ride from the airport to anywhere in the city.

A useful scheme would be an EU-wide voucher for a "bus/train/tram ticket
from airport to anywhere in that City" for about 5 Euros, and you could
buy a book of them in any place and use them later. In most towns you
could do better ad-hoc, but at least you'd never be stranded.
--
Roland Perry