On Sat, 17 May 2008 20:14:58 +0100, "Bevan Price"
meVIAfreeukFULLSTOPcom wrote:


"Tom Barry" wrote in message
...

My gut feeling is that the bendies will be put out to pasture when their
natural life is up, which may be from about 2012 onwards (I'm assuming
average bus life in London as being about ten years, but bendies serving
intensive routes may tire faster

Or more likely, London rejects will be inflicted on places like Leeds,
Glasgow, Manchester, etc., as has happened with double deckers when Ken &
successor decide they are too old for London.

Very unlikely as none of them are owned by the big groups so they won't
cascade via that route. They are all leased and may end up almost
anywhere but given the three door layout it's most probable they'll end
up doing airport transfers or similar. If they can be converted to two
door then they may have more utility for other UK operators.

--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

Paul Corfield wrote:

Very unlikely as none of them are owned by the big groups so they won't
cascade via that route. They are all leased and may end up almost
anywhere but given the three door layout it's most probable they'll end
up doing airport transfers or similar. If they can be converted to two
door then they may have more utility for other UK operators.

Hmm, good point. The leasing companies will presumably expect to be
compensated if you want to hand them back early, unless they've been
remiss with the contracts (particularly given that right-hand-drive
Citaro Gs aren't in huge demand, so finding an alternative user is
problematic). Therefore you have the possibility of a Mayor elected on
a platform of better financial control spending money to return a leased
bus fleet early and then spending more money replacing it with more
labour-intensive hardware that costs more to run, purely because of his
personal antipathy to the design.

Have I missed anything? Obviously it would be nice to know who's signed
up to what (TfL presumably signed something saying we'll have x number
of buses for y years at z pounds/year but the details may be important)
but I doubt anyone will tell us.

Tom

On Sat, 17 May 2008 23:21:39 +0100, Tom Barry
wrote:

Paul Corfield wrote:

Very unlikely as none of them are owned by the big groups so they won't
cascade via that route. They are all leased and may end up almost
anywhere but given the three door layout it's most probable they'll end
up doing airport transfers or similar. If they can be converted to two
door then they may have more utility for other UK operators.

Hmm, good point. The leasing companies will presumably expect to be
compensated if you want to hand them back early, unless they've been
remiss with the contracts (particularly given that right-hand-drive
Citaro Gs aren't in huge demand, so finding an alternative user is
problematic). Therefore you have the possibility of a Mayor elected on
a platform of better financial control spending money to return a leased
bus fleet early and then spending more money replacing it with more
labour-intensive hardware that costs more to run, purely because of his
personal antipathy to the design.

I doubt the leasing companies will have missed a trick. Some of the
spare ex Selkent bendies are going to Arriva to bolster some North
London routes and I think some others are going to the 25 (not 100% sure
on that). Others have gone back to Dawson Rentals. The acid test will
be what the hell happens to the retendering of the Red Arrows - they are
out to tender now but the new contract starts in a year's time. Artics
make a lot of sense on those routes given the heavy peak flows. I
personally can't see them being replaced by deckers so we'd be back to
rigid single decks but needing more of them than currently. I don't see
how that is value for money.

I don't think there is any real financial logic to the Boris Bus Plans
but then there is no logic to the policy at all given, as you say, it is
based on personal antipathy. This is the worst basis on which to make
policy.

Have I missed anything? Obviously it would be nice to know who's signed
up to what (TfL presumably signed something saying we'll have x number
of buses for y years at z pounds/year but the details may be important)
but I doubt anyone will tell us.

I have never seen anything published that shows vehicle leasing costs or
who the contracts are with. The operators sort out the vehicles but have
to comply with TfL's general specs as well as the specific contract
terms for each route. TfL simply pay a performance adjusted contract fee
- the annualised cost per route is typically shown on the bus tender
awards page. However costs can become "murky" if a group discount tender
is awarded where the operator offers a lower price if it wins several
routes in one tranche. I doubt FOI would work either as commercial
confidentiality certainly applies to the monetary amounts in what is a
competitive tendering process.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

In message , at 20:38:53 on
Sat, 17 May 2008, Paul Corfield remarked:
They are all leased and may end up almost anywhere but given the three
door layout

Why can't one set of doors simply be disabled?
--
Roland Perry

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
news
In message , at 20:38:53 on
Sat, 17 May 2008, Paul Corfield remarked:
They are all leased and may end up almost anywhere but given the three
door layout

Why can't one set of doors simply be disabled?
--
Roland Perry

I've often wondered if drivers can separately control each set of doors on
bendibusses.

It seems that they can control the front door separately, while the rear two
always work in sync.

Why also have they put in a delay between when passengers push the stop
button and the bell actually ringing? Earlier, as soon as you pushed the
button, the bell would immediately ring.

In message , at 11:17:58 on Sun, 18
May 2008, remarked:

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
news
In message , at 20:38:53 on
Sat, 17 May 2008, Paul Corfield remarked:
They are all leased and may end up almost anywhere but given the three
door layout

Why can't one set of doors simply be disabled?

I've often wondered if drivers can separately control each set of doors on
bendibusses.

It seems that they can control the front door separately, while the rear two
always work in sync.

I was suggesting something like taking the motors out one set of rear
doors, and nailing them shut.

Why also have they put in a delay between when passengers push the stop
button and the bell actually ringing? Earlier, as soon as you pushed the
button, the bell would immediately ring.

Is the delay always the same? If it varies, maybe the driver is pressing
a button to confirm. That might be useful when someone presses the
button as the bus is whizzing alongside a stop (but too late to brake)
to emphasise that he's only expecting to stop at the *next* one.
--
Roland Perry

On Sun, 18 May 2008 10:51:43 +0100, Roland Perry
wrote:

In message , at 20:38:53 on
Sat, 17 May 2008, Paul Corfield remarked:
They are all leased and may end up almost anywhere but given the three
door layout

Why can't one set of doors simply be disabled?

Or even plated over. That's what happened to most deckers and the
likes that have gone from London to elsewhere - replace the panel, add
2 rows of seats.

That said, provincial bus operators don't like extra doors because of
fare-dodging. If they have to have the one on the artic section
(which I think they do), a middle set won't be any more of a problem.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

In message , at 10:49:02 on Sun,
18 May 2008, Neil Williams remarked:
That said, provincial bus operators don't like extra doors because of
fare-dodging. If they have to have the one on the artic section
(which I think they do), a middle set won't be any more of a problem.

Nottingham's bendy buses seem to have one door at the front and a second
one in the back section just behind the "concertina". They are far
enough apart that when pulled up to a normal bus stop (which are usually
arranged so the queue starts at the front of the bus and then grows away
so the driver can see the whole queue ahead of him) you wouldn't expect
any of the people in the queue to be running to the back to get on.
--
Roland Perry