Read in the Lite today that Moir Lockhead is warning Boris about the
plan to reintroduce Routemasters - and is trying to peddle him the
"ftr", which is, umm, a glorified bendy bus.

Will First never learn? In my experience, their buses in London are
some of the oldest, dirtiest and most poorly-maintained. Not a good
start.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

"Neil Williams" wrote:

Read in the Lite today that Moir Lockhead is warning Boris about the
plan to reintroduce Routemasters - and is trying to peddle him the
"ftr", which is, umm, a glorified bendy bus.

Will First never learn? In my experience, their buses in London are
some of the oldest, dirtiest and most poorly-maintained. Not a good
start.

He also said that bus passengers and operators like the bendies - it's other
road users (ie cabbies and cyclists, I guess) who detest them.

Now the election is over, I fully expect this 'new Routemaster' stuff to be
quietly shelved. This would represent the biggest U-turn
since.....well......Ken promised never to scrap the Routemaster!

Chris

On May 14, 8:53*pm, "Chris Read" wrote:
"Neil Williams" wrote:
Read in the Lite today that Moir Lockhead is warning Boris about the
plan to reintroduce Routemasters - and is trying to peddle him the
"ftr", which is, umm, a glorified bendy bus.

Will First never learn? *In my experience, their buses in London are
some of the oldest, dirtiest and most poorly-maintained. *Not a good
start.

He also said that bus passengers and operators like the bendies - it's other
road users (ie cabbies and cyclists, I guess) who detest them.

No, he is just wrong. Most passengers don't like them either, and I
can't believe it's much fun for the drivers except if they are paid
more for coping with them.

Operators may like the idea of not having to collect fares, but that
is independent of the shape of the bus.

And don't forget pedestrians, whose crossings are constantly blocked
by them.


Now the election is over, I fully expect this 'new Routemaster' stuff to be
quietly shelved. This would represent the biggest U-turn
since.....well......Ken promised never to scrap the Routemaster!

But why should we accept that the choice is between bendys and
Routemasters? I'm sure I remember a few generations of other designs
in between and since ...

"Chris Read" wrote in message

"Neil Williams" wrote:

Read in the Lite today that Moir Lockhead is warning Boris about the
plan to reintroduce Routemasters - and is trying to peddle him the
"ftr", which is, umm, a glorified bendy bus.

Will First never learn? In my experience, their buses in London are
some of the oldest, dirtiest and most poorly-maintained. Not a good
start.

He also said that bus passengers and operators like the bendies -
it's other road users (ie cabbies and cyclists, I guess) who detest
them.
Now the election is over, I fully expect this 'new Routemaster' stuff
to be quietly shelved. This would represent the biggest U-turn
since.....well......Ken promised never to scrap the Routemaster!

I don't think it was just a campaign slogan -- Boris is a cyclist who
nurses a personal hatred for bendy buses. It's why it was just about the
first policy he was able to articulate, quite a while ago, long before
he was supplied with a complete manifesto. While we're not likely to get
anything that resembles a good old RM (unless he actually gets some of
them back from the scrapyard), I think he really does want to get the
bendies off London's streets.

On Wed, 14 May 2008 19:38:00 GMT, (Neil
Williams) wrote:

Read in the Lite today that Moir Lockhead is warning Boris about the
plan to reintroduce Routemasters - and is trying to peddle him the
"ftr", which is, umm, a glorified bendy bus.

But ftr has conductors on it and nice curvy fronts and settees at the
back. Surely that makes it wonderful? I still don't understand how
First think ftr is an economically viable / profitable venture given the
staffing costs are double those of a conventional opo bus.

Will First never learn? In my experience, their buses in London are
some of the oldest, dirtiest and most poorly-maintained. Not a good
start.

I am a bit surprised by those comments. I don't think First are the
worst operator in London and I wouldn't pick on the issues you've
highlighted as being typical. First did have a bad patch and lost a
number of tenders which has curtailed fleet replacement to some degree
but I'd cite Metroline as having been equally bad and still distinctly
patchy on some of their routes. Care to share some examples?
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

MIG wrote:

No, he is just wrong. Most passengers don't like them either, and I
can't believe it's much fun for the drivers except if they are paid
more for coping with them.

Operators may like the idea of not having to collect fares, but that
is independent of the shape of the bus.

And don't forget pedestrians, whose crossings are constantly blocked
by them.

Constantly? Where?

Personally, they're just a bloody bus, I don't detest or like them any
more than any other bus and regard the way whole furore became the only
transport issue ever debated as completely inexplicable.

My gut feeling is that the bendies will be put out to pasture when their
natural life is up, which may be from about 2012 onwards (I'm assuming
average bus life in London as being about ten years, but bendies serving
intensive routes may tire faster and I doubt there's a political
appetite for spending cash on refurbishment). The replacements should
be trams which have the advantages of high capacity and speed of
boarding and add greater attraction to switching motorists zero local
emissions. The replacements will probably be large numbers of
conventional double deckers.

Tom

On Wed, 14 May 2008 13:20:18 -0700 (PDT), MIG
wrote:

On May 14, 8:53*pm, "Chris Read" wrote:
"Neil Williams" wrote:
Read in the Lite today that Moir Lockhead is warning Boris about the
plan to reintroduce Routemasters - and is trying to peddle him the
"ftr", which is, umm, a glorified bendy bus.

Will First never learn? *In my experience, their buses in London are
some of the oldest, dirtiest and most poorly-maintained. *Not a good
start.

He also said that bus passengers and operators like the bendies - it's other
road users (ie cabbies and cyclists, I guess) who detest them.

No, he is just wrong. Most passengers don't like them either, and I
can't believe it's much fun for the drivers except if they are paid
more for coping with them.

I don't think anyone honestly knows what passengers think about bendy
buses. People from both sides of the debate cling to bits of comment,
political campaigns and anything else that gets said to justify their
respective positions. I think I've read ever possible "for and against"
argument there is.

I like bendy buses and I think they do have a role in a busy bus network
like London's. I don't expect many here to agree with me but hey!

Operators may like the idea of not having to collect fares, but that
is independent of the shape of the bus.

I don't think London operators care very much one way or the other as
they are simply contractors. TfL pick up the tab overall - the operators
only really carry the day to day safety and operational risks. Farebox
revenue risk is with TfL.

Now the election is over, I fully expect this 'new Routemaster' stuff to be
quietly shelved. This would represent the biggest U-turn
since.....well......Ken promised never to scrap the Routemaster!

But why should we accept that the choice is between bendys and
Routemasters? I'm sure I remember a few generations of other designs
in between and since ...

Well yes there have been intermediate designs over the years but how
many have lasted a full term in use and not been subject to political
shenanigans at some point? I'm struggling to think of one - London
seems to be cursed in having "controversial" bus designs every 10 years
or so that are promoted one minute and scrapped the next. What's the
bet that hybrids are the next victim of that trend. Replacement
Routemaster vs Bendy Buses have completed Scene One of their great stage
act; I dare say we'll move on to Scene Two fairly soon.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

"MIG" wrote:

Chris Read wrote:

He also said that bus passengers and operators like the bendies - it's
other
road users (ie cabbies and cyclists, I guess) who detest them.

No, he is just wrong. Most passengers don't like them either, and I
can't believe it's much fun for the drivers except if they are paid
more for coping with them.

I like them, but I'm primarily a 'Red Arrow' user, for which routes they are
well suited. I haven't noticed a huge clamour to bring back the Leyland
Nationals with plastic seats.

IIRC, the drivers are paid more.

And don't forget pedestrians, whose crossings are constantly blocked
by them.

Hardly any drivers observe crossing courtesies in London. In my view, bendy
drivers are amongst the smoothest and most courteous of bus drivers in
London.

But why should we accept that the choice is between bendys and
Routemasters? I'm sure I remember a few generations of other designs
in between and since ...

Agreed. But no more Tridents, please........

Chris

On Wed, 14 May 2008, MIG wrote:

On May 14, 8:53*pm, "Chris Read" wrote:
"Neil Williams" wrote:

Read in the Lite today that Moir Lockhead is warning Boris about the
plan to reintroduce Routemasters - and is trying to peddle him the
"ftr", which is, umm, a glorified bendy bus.

He also said that bus passengers and operators like the bendies - it's other
road users (ie cabbies and cyclists, I guess) who detest them.

No, he is just wrong. Most passengers don't like them either,

Surveys say otherwise.

tom

--
THE DRUMMER FROM DEF LEPPARD'S ONLY GOT ONE ARM!

Recliner wrote:
While we're not
likely to get anything that resembles a good old RM (unless he
actually gets some of them back from the scrapyard)

Whose idea was it to paint an RM in brown and silver (RM 1933 IIRC)? I saw
it today and nearly vomited!