I haven't been to London for a few years. But I've heard a lot on
this newsgroup about the elimination of Routemasters except for a few
"heritage" services, and the widespread introduction of articulated
single-deck buses. What I haven't heard about is the status of the
*other* double-deckers, the ones operated only by a driver. Are these
still in use on some routes or have they been totally replaced without
my hearing about it? If they are still in use, are they expected to
be totally replaced? And what about the smaller single-deck buses
that I used to see on some of the quieter routes? And are there other
important subcategories these days that I didn't think to ask about?

Are there statistics somewhere about how many buses are in use of each
of these types, or how many routes they operate on? I'm just looking
for a general idea here, and I don't particularly want to know about
specific models of bus unless they differ in important ways.
--
Mark Brader, Toronto "Information! ... We want information!"
-- The Prisoner

My text in this article is in the public domain.

In article , (Mark
Brader) wrote:

I haven't been to London for a few years. But I've heard a lot on
this newsgroup about the elimination of Routemasters except for a few
"heritage" services, and the widespread introduction of articulated
single-deck buses. What I haven't heard about is the status of the
*other* double-deckers, the ones operated only by a driver. Are these
still in use on some routes or have they been totally replaced without
my hearing about it? If they are still in use, are they expected to
be totally replaced? And what about the smaller single-deck buses
that I used to see on some of the quieter routes? And are there other
important subcategories these days that I didn't think to ask about?

Are there statistics somewhere about how many buses are in use of each
of these types, or how many routes they operate on? I'm just looking
for a general idea here, and I don't particularly want to know about
specific models of bus unless they differ in important ways.

Dual door driver-only operated double deckers certainly provide the bulk
of the services in central London and in suburbs like Putney, at least

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On Sun, 18 May 2008, Mark Brader wrote:

I haven't been to London for a few years. But I've heard a lot on
this newsgroup about the elimination of Routemasters except for a few
"heritage" services, and the widespread introduction of articulated
single-deck buses.

'Widespread' is perhaps too strong. Twelve routes (i think) use bendies.
They are some of the busiest and most important, though, so you see them
quite often if you're somewhere that's anywhere.

What I haven't heard about is the status of the *other* double-deckers,
the ones operated only by a driver. Are these still in use on some
routes or have they been totally replaced without my hearing about it?

They're still around, and account, i'd say, for the vast majority of
buses.

If they are still in use, are they expected to be totally replaced?

No. Bendification was only ever planned for the busiest routes, as it's
fairly expensive and requires good, wide roads. Double-deckers were always
slated to carry on serving the majority of routes. Now that there's a
moratorium on further bendification, and a possible rolling-back of
bendies under the Boris, that's guaranteed.

And what about the smaller single-deck buses that I used to see on some
of the quieter routes?

Yes, there are still plenty of those.

And are there other important subcategories these days that I didn't
think to ask about?

A tracked, armoured bus is being trialled in Peckham.

Are there statistics somewhere about how many buses are in use of each
of these types, or how many routes they operate on? I'm just looking
for a general idea here, and I don't particularly want to know about
specific models of bus unless they differ in important ways.

I can't immediately find any such data. I couldn't even find a definitive
list of bendy-bus routes!

tom

--
These spoiled youths forget that when they are shaven they look like
boiled potatoes. -- Tara Singh

On 18 May, 21:37, Tom Anderson wrote:
I can't immediately find any such data. I couldn't even find a definitive
list of bendy-bus routes!

Try the London Free Bus Map:
http://www.philippekindelis.net/freetransport.htm

U

--
http://londonconnections.blogspot.com/
A blog about transport projects in London

On 2008-05-18, Mark Brader wrote:
I haven't been to London for a few years. But I've heard a lot on
this newsgroup about the elimination of Routemasters except for a few
"heritage" services, and the widespread introduction of articulated
single-deck buses. What I haven't heard about is the status of the
*other* double-deckers, the ones operated only by a driver. Are these
still in use on some routes or have they been totally replaced without
my hearing about it? If they are still in use, are they expected to
be totally replaced? And what about the smaller single-deck buses
that I used to see on some of the quieter routes? And are there other
important subcategories these days that I didn't think to ask about?

Are there statistics somewhere about how many buses are in use of each
of these types, or how many routes they operate on? I'm just looking
for a general idea here, and I don't particularly want to know about
specific models of bus unless they differ in important ways.

http://www.londonbusroutes.net/routes.htm

at least makes the bendies obvious, and

http://www.londonbusroutes.net/details.htm

has too much detail for you, but would show what are single-deck and
double-deck routes (and usually the length of the bus type), but
currently there are a number of routes in the list that say DD when they
should say SD.

E

On Sun, 18 May 2008 15:11:18 -0500, (Mark Brader) wrote:

I haven't been to London for a few years. But I've heard a lot on
this newsgroup about the elimination of Routemasters except for a few
"heritage" services, and the widespread introduction of articulated
single-deck buses. What I haven't heard about is the status of the
*other* double-deckers, the ones operated only by a driver. Are these
still in use on some routes or have they been totally replaced without
my hearing about it? If they are still in use, are they expected to
be totally replaced? And what about the smaller single-deck buses
that I used to see on some of the quieter routes? And are there other
important subcategories these days that I didn't think to ask about?

Are there statistics somewhere about how many buses are in use of each
of these types, or how many routes they operate on? I'm just looking
for a general idea here, and I don't particularly want to know about
specific models of bus unless they differ in important ways.

Routemasters are in use on the 9 and 15 Heritage routes. These are
shorter versions of the main routes and run entirely in Zone 1 on 15
minute headways. Only 10 RMs are in use from about 0900 - 1900 daily.

Citaro Articulated buses are in use on the 12, 18, 25, 29, 38, 73, 149,
207, 436, 453, 507, 521. All bar the last two are daily services with
the 12, 25, 29, 149, 436 and 453 having night service with bendy buses
too. The night variants of the others (not 507 and 521) run with double
decks. Daily PVR is just over 320 vehicles. Boris Johnson, the new
Mayor, wants to consign all of these to the scrap yard.

All remaining routes in the TfL network run with either double deck low
floor buses, single deck low floor buses or low floor midibuses.

For the single deck market the vast majority of buses are Dennis Darts
with a range of bodywork and lengths. The smallest are single door but
most are dual door. Newest versions are the Alexander Dennis Enviro 200
which is an updated version of the Dart and seems likely to do as well
as it predecessor. There are very few full size (11 or 12m) single deck
buses - a few Citaro and Scania single decks run on a few routes (293,
358, RV1). There are a few Optare Solo midibuses with short, narrow
versions used on the W12 (a local Walthamstow service).

Almost everything else is double deck with a rough split between Dennis
Tridents and Volvo B7s for the older vehicles although Arriva bought a
lot of DAF / VDL chassis. Bodywork over all types is split between
Plaxton President / Alexander ALX / Wright Gemini bodywork. The newest
double decks are split between the new Alexander Dennis Enviro 400 (an
updated Trident in effect) and Scania who are doing very well in London.
Volvo are not doing at all well with their B9 although one bus exists
with London General and 3 more on order.

The other developing niche in the bus fleets is hybrid buses. We had 3
hydrogen buses (Mercedes Benz Citaro rigids ) on the 25 and RV1 but
these have been retired from service. The 360 service has a fleet of
Wrightbus Hybrids as does the 129. The 360 vehicles have not been
stunningly reliable but the 129 seems to be better. One hybrid double
deck runs with Arriva on the 141 - again bodied by Wright and I think
based on a VDL chassis but I may be wrong on that. Several other hybrid
buses are on order with a mix of manufacturers and bodybuilders with
both single and double decks in prospect.

Overall the PVR for the TfL network is circa 7150 M-F and 4391 on
Sundays, 762 on Saturday nights ("N" routes and 24 hour services).

The network is continuing to expand with route extensions still coming
through, increased Evening and Sunday services, the odd new service
(route 135 starts soon and 228 later) plus peak enhancements to try to
squeeze yet more capacity. Many route tender awards result in new buses
being ordered as well. The most surprising (to me) aspect is how busy
Sunday services are - I've been out most Sundays recently and many buses
are full or near to full which is a big turn round from about 10 years
ago when demand was much lower.

HTH
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

On Sun, 18 May 2008 21:37:15 +0100, Tom Anderson
wrote:

Bendification was only ever planned for the busiest routes, as it's
fairly expensive and requires good, wide roads.

Like some of the ones they use in Central London!

On Sun, 18 May 2008 22:58:54 +0100, Paul Corfield
wrote:

Boris Johnson, the new
Mayor, wants to consign all of these to the scrap yard.

Is that actually true, or does he just want to stop using them on TfL
services?

Paul Corfield wrote:

The most surprising (to me) aspect is how busy
Sunday services are - I've been out most Sundays recently and many buses
are full or near to full which is a big turn round from about 10 years
ago when demand was much lower.

Sometimes too full - how often are Sunday services reviewed and potentially
expanded?

One particular problem I've seen is the over reliance on existing bus routes
to double as rail replacement services. The Central Line betwen Mile End and
Stratford is the most obvious case in my normal routine and often I've found
the 25 ridiculously crowded (even by its standards) and insufficiently
frequent when there's no tube between those points.

On 19 May, 00:17, James Farrar wrote:
Is that actually true, or does he just want to stop using them on TfL
services?

Not even that. The most reason news is there'll be a design
competition to see if anything better is possible, but if not, they'll
stay. They seem to be slowly backing away from the policy, especially
the "new Routemaster" part.

U

--
http://londonconnections.blogspot.com/
A blog about transport projects in London