On May 27, 12:17*am, MIG wrote:
On May 26, 11:46*pm, Mr Thant

wrote:
On 26 May, 22:32, MIG wrote:

I don't quite follow this. *Both tracks on the West Curve are
northbound, one for each platform they might have used leaving West
India Quay.

Between the flyover and the west curve there's a short section where
the two westbound/northbound tracks run alongside the eastbound/
southbound track from the flyover. The three tracks then go around the
West Curve together and into their respective platforms at West India
Quay. *The plan is to replace the northernmost track with a ramp down
to a diveunder under the East Curve.

That still doesn't seem right. *Surely the northernmost of the three
tracks IS the flyover?



Southbound trains use the flyover. *Is the idea to leave the flyover
in place until the divunder is built (on the space reclaimed from one
side of the West Curve) and then demolish the flyover?

No. The flyover is untouched. Southbound trains will use the West
India Down Viaduct to go over the Beckton Link Vaiduct (as now) then
almost immediately use the new dive under to go under the East Curve
and into Canary Wharf.

That makes sense in itself, but then where would the flyover lead to?

(Reading and re-reading and trying to make sense ...) I think the bit
with three tracks that you mention is right by West India Quay end.
So that would mean that it's the track that comes over the flyover
that then immediately goes down the flyunder.

So that still leaves a mysterious bit of track removal on the
previously two-track section a bit further west. The only way that
could go two-way would be by creating a flat junction on the Westferry
side, which can't be the plan. It was always two north/westbound
tracks which merged, but now merge further east.

On 27 May, 00:29, MIG wrote:
So that still leaves a mysterious bit of track removal on the
previously two-track section a bit further west. *The only way that
could go two-way would be by creating a flat junction on the Westferry
side, which can't be the plan. *It was always two north/westbound
tracks which merged, but now merge further east.

Have a look at this diagram:
http://tinyurl.com/42v2d4

The red bit is the new dive under. The yellow bit is the existing
flyover. Ignore the red cross.

By where it says DLT 1 there's some hatching on a section of the
eastbound track, which is the bit to be demolished. Below the hatching
are the two westbound tracks. One of these will be used temporarily to
get eastbound trains from the flyover to West India Quay. And that's
why they've made the two westbound tracks merge before they get to
this area.

U

--
http://londonconnections.blogspot.com/
A blog about transport projects in London

On May 27, 1:05*am, Mr Thant
wrote:
On 27 May, 00:29, MIG wrote:

So that still leaves a mysterious bit of track removal on the
previously two-track section a bit further west. *The only way that
could go two-way would be by creating a flat junction on the Westferry
side, which can't be the plan. *It was always two north/westbound
tracks which merged, but now merge further east.

Have a look at this diagram:http://tinyurl.com/42v2d4

The red bit is the new dive under. The yellow bit is the existing
flyover. Ignore the red cross.

By where it says DLT 1 there's some hatching on a section of the
eastbound track, which is the bit to be demolished. Below the hatching
are the two westbound tracks. One of these will be used temporarily to
get eastbound trains from the flyover to West India Quay. And that's
why they've made the two westbound tracks merge before they get to
this area.

I think I'm getting there. Also, maybe the start of the flyunder is
going to encroach on where the northern of the westbound tracks used
to go in any case. I can certainly imagine that the building of it
would.

Will the direct track remain as a diversion? I am also thinking that
maybe West India Quay could continue to be served at less busy times,
but maybe that would be confusing.

It's becoming more of a weekend destination, with bars, restaurants,
festivals and things.

On May 27, 1:05 am, Mr Thant
wrote:
On 27 May, 00:29, MIG wrote:

So that still leaves a mysterious bit of track removal on the
previously two-track section a bit further west. The only way that
could go two-way would be by creating a flat junction on the Westferry
side, which can't be the plan. It was always two north/westbound
tracks which merged, but now merge further east.

Have a look at this diagram:http://tinyurl.com/42v2d4

The red bit is the new dive under. The yellow bit is the existing
flyover. Ignore the red cross.

By where it says DLT 1 there's some hatching on a section of the
eastbound track, which is the bit to be demolished. Below the hatching
are the two westbound tracks. One of these will be used temporarily to
get eastbound trains from the flyover to West India Quay. And that's
why they've made the two westbound tracks merge before they get to
this area.

U

--http://londonconnections.blogspot.com/
A blog about transport projects in London

Will the diveunder mean that trains from Bank won't be able to access
the centre platform at Canary Whard to reverse? Do any bank services
terminate at Canary Wharf at the moment, or is it just trains from
Stratford?

On 27 May, 13:12, brixtonite wrote:
On May 27, 1:05 am, Mr Thant
wrote:





On 27 May, 00:29, MIG wrote:

So that still leaves a mysterious bit of track removal on the
previously two-track section a bit further west. *The only way that
could go two-way would be by creating a flat junction on the Westferry
side, which can't be the plan. *It was always two north/westbound
tracks which merged, but now merge further east.

Have a look at this diagram:http://tinyurl.com/42v2d4

The red bit is the new dive under. The yellow bit is the existing
flyover. Ignore the red cross.

By where it says DLT 1 there's some hatching on a section of the
eastbound track, which is the bit to be demolished. Below the hatching
are the two westbound tracks. One of these will be used temporarily to
get eastbound trains from the flyover to West India Quay. And that's
why they've made the two westbound tracks merge before they get to
this area.

U

--http://londonconnections.blogspot.com/
A blog about transport projects in London

Will the diveunder mean that trains from Bank won't be able to access
the centre platform at Canary Whard to reverse? *Do any bank services
terminate at Canary Wharf at the moment, or is it just trains from
Stratford?-

Apparently they do at weekends (but I've never noticed, probably
because it's so long since any normal weekend pattern has actually
run).

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloa...-Timetable.pdf

On 27 May, 13:12, brixtonite wrote:
Will the diveunder mean that trains from Bank won't be able to access
the centre platform at Canary Whard to reverse?

No idea. But they'll be coming from the east side rather than the
middle, and I don't think there'll be a non-conflicting route to the
middle platform and back out. It'd be much better to send them south
and have the trains from Poplar direction use the middle platform.

U

--
http://londonconnections.blogspot.com/
A blog about transport projects in London

On 27 May, 14:35, Mr Thant
wrote:
On 27 May, 13:12, brixtonite wrote:

Will the diveunder mean that trains from Bank won't be able to access
the centre platform at Canary Whard to reverse?

No idea. But they'll be coming from the east side rather than the
middle, and I don't think there'll be a non-conflicting route to the
middle platform and back out. It'd be much better to send them south
and have the trains from Poplar direction use the middle platform.

I don't think there's currently any route from the most eastern
platform at West India Quay to the middle platform at Canary Wharf.

But is there any reason why the current track from Westferry to West
India couldn't be left in place for emergencies and quiet times?

On 27 May, 16:25, MIG wrote:
But is there any reason why the current track from Westferry to West
India couldn't be left in place for emergencies and quiet times?

1. There isn't a current track from Westferry to West India Quay
(apart from the flyover)
2. At time of writing, there isn't a current track from West India
Quay to Westferry of any kind (apart from going the wrong way over the
flyover).
3. The flyover and dive-under route avoiding West India Quay will only
be used at peak times.
4. It turns out I was completely wrong about the interim state.
They're going to turn Westferry Junction into a flat junction and
demolish the flyover, exactly as you described.

Environmental statement:
http://194.201.98.213/WAM/doc/Other-...df&pageCount=1

Non-technical summary:
http://194.201.98.213/WAM/doc/Other-...df&pageCount=1

(both have before/after track diagrams)

U

--
http://londonconnections.blogspot.com/
A blog about transport projects in London

On May 27, 11:33*pm, Mr Thant
wrote:
On 27 May, 16:25, MIG wrote:

But is there any reason why the current track from Westferry to West
India couldn't be left in place for emergencies and quiet times?

1. There isn't a current track from Westferry to West India Quay
(apart from the flyover)
2. At time of writing, there isn't a current track from West India
Quay to Westferry of any kind (apart from going the wrong way over the
flyover).

Ah well. If they can describe a derailment as a broken down train, I
spose they can describe a viaduct gone as overrunning engineering
works ...

3. The flyover and dive-under route avoiding West India Quay will only
be used at peak times.

Ah right. That makes sense.

4. It turns out I was completely wrong about the interim state.
They're going to turn Westferry Junction into a flat junction and
demolish the flyover, exactly as you described.

Ah right, but the flat junction is only used when the flyunder isn't
used, ie at quieter times, or that would have been odd (moving the
conflict from one place to another).

But the diagram looks like I'm wrong about demolishing the flyover and
that the peak southbound trains will go over the flyover and then
under the flyunder. If what you said was wrong, it was only about the
other route being interim.

Or maybe it will be a different flyover. I am not clear on what's
being lowered; presumably the current eastern end of the flyover so it
can go under instead of heading for West India Quay.