Today I had to travel from Bromley South to Denmark Hill accompanied by my
13yr old grandson, who expressed concerns about safety. I reassured him and,
as far as Nunhead at least, all was well. There a middle aged drunk got on,
complete with beer can, and ambled down the carriage with an inane grin on
his face. He sat down, put his can in the walkway and emptied his pockets of
various items (one of which appeared to be a Freedom Pass) on the seat
opposite me, then mumbled to a man sitting near him, before rising,
collecting his bits and ambling off the train again at Peckham Rye, still
grinning. Not frightening, but still the sort of thing which causes concern.

On arrival at Denmark Hill, as we approached the stairs, a girl of around 20
(although her face looked about 60) with beer can in hand stopped to stare
at a baby in a pram and to question its mother, who hastily declined any
help with the buggy. Similar sort of situation as above.

On my return, alone, I had a 20 minute wait. After a few minutes 3 youths
and a girl arrived, took over one of the benches and by their behaviour
forced the female occupant to move away. They were not threatening to other
passengers (sorry, customers) but argued amongst themselves. On the train,
during the journey to Bellingham where they alighted, they passed back and
forth through the train shouting at each other, which is always of concern
to anyone with property.

Finally, as we pulled into Ravensbourne, there were 4 teenagers, probably
15-17, with hoods of various types on the platform. They moved past my
window at the start of the rear carriage and I expected to hear them get on.
A few moments later, there was a sudden shout from the rear of the carriage:
"****, he's taken my bag". By the time I could see down the fairly full
carriage, they had all disappeared up the adjacent exit. The train then
proceeded to Bromley where I alighted and the female victim went to report
her loss.

So, nothing happened to me, I wasn't threatened or harassed, I won't be
statistic but no, along with other passengers I didn't enjoy my trip!

MaxB

On Sun, 8 Jun 2008 17:06:38 +0100, "Batman55"
wrote this gibberish:

Today I had to travel from Bromley South to Denmark Hill accompanied by my
13yr old grandson, who expressed concerns about safety. I reassured him and,
as far as Nunhead at least, all was well. There a middle aged drunk got on,
complete with beer can, and ambled down the carriage with an inane grin on
his face. He sat down, put his can in the walkway and emptied his pockets of
various items (one of which appeared to be a Freedom Pass) on the seat
opposite me, then mumbled to a man sitting near him, before rising,
collecting his bits and ambling off the train again at Peckham Rye, still
grinning. Not frightening, but still the sort of thing which causes concern.

On arrival at Denmark Hill, as we approached the stairs, a girl of around 20
(although her face looked about 60) with beer can in hand stopped to stare
at a baby in a pram and to question its mother, who hastily declined any
help with the buggy. Similar sort of situation as above.

On my return, alone, I had a 20 minute wait. After a few minutes 3 youths
and a girl arrived, took over one of the benches and by their behaviour
forced the female occupant to move away. They were not threatening to other
passengers (sorry, customers) but argued amongst themselves. On the train,
during the journey to Bellingham where they alighted, they passed back and
forth through the train shouting at each other, which is always of concern
to anyone with property.

Finally, as we pulled into Ravensbourne, there were 4 teenagers, probably
15-17, with hoods of various types on the platform. They moved past my
window at the start of the rear carriage and I expected to hear them get on.
A few moments later, there was a sudden shout from the rear of the carriage:
"****, he's taken my bag". By the time I could see down the fairly full
carriage, they had all disappeared up the adjacent exit. The train then
proceeded to Bromley where I alighted and the female victim went to report
her loss.

So, nothing happened to me, I wasn't threatened or harassed, I won't be
statistic but no, along with other passengers I didn't enjoy my trip!

MaxB



I've had a few journeys with people I felt a need to keep an eye on,
only had to act on anothers behalf once and 'discourage' people a
couple of times. that might be alot as I've only been in London for 2
years but I often travel late at night so maybe I meet more 'bad'
people than most.

goes with the territory I feel.

--
Mark Varley
www.MarkVarleyPhoto.co.uk
www.TwistedPhotography.co.uk
London, England.

MarkVarley - MVP wrote:
On Sun, 8 Jun 2008 17:06:38 +0100, "Batman55"
wrote this gibberish:

Today I had to travel from Bromley South to Denmark Hill accompanied by my
13yr old grandson, who expressed concerns about safety. I reassured him and,
as far as Nunhead at least, all was well. There a middle aged drunk got on,
complete with beer can, and ambled down the carriage with an inane grin on
his face. He sat down, put his can in the walkway and emptied his pockets of
various items (one of which appeared to be a Freedom Pass) on the seat
opposite me, then mumbled to a man sitting near him, before rising,
collecting his bits and ambling off the train again at Peckham Rye, still
grinning. Not frightening, but still the sort of thing which causes concern.

On arrival at Denmark Hill, as we approached the stairs, a girl of around 20
(although her face looked about 60) with beer can in hand stopped to stare
at a baby in a pram and to question its mother, who hastily declined any
help with the buggy. Similar sort of situation as above.

On my return, alone, I had a 20 minute wait. After a few minutes 3 youths
and a girl arrived, took over one of the benches and by their behaviour
forced the female occupant to move away. They were not threatening to other
passengers (sorry, customers) but argued amongst themselves. On the train,
during the journey to Bellingham where they alighted, they passed back and
forth through the train shouting at each other, which is always of concern
to anyone with property.

Finally, as we pulled into Ravensbourne, there were 4 teenagers, probably
15-17, with hoods of various types on the platform. They moved past my
window at the start of the rear carriage and I expected to hear them get on.
A few moments later, there was a sudden shout from the rear of the carriage:
"****, he's taken my bag". By the time I could see down the fairly full
carriage, they had all disappeared up the adjacent exit. The train then
proceeded to Bromley where I alighted and the female victim went to report
her loss.

So, nothing happened to me, I wasn't threatened or harassed, I won't be
statistic but no, along with other passengers I didn't enjoy my trip!

MaxB



I've had a few journeys with people I felt a need to keep an eye on,
only had to act on anothers behalf once and 'discourage' people a
couple of times. that might be alot as I've only been in London for 2
years but I often travel late at night so maybe I meet more 'bad'
people than most.

goes with the territory I feel.

I once saw a couple of young ladies (20ish) being bothered by three
louts on the Northern Line. I was about to help said girls (how I don't
know, I'm past my sell by date) but before I got anywhere near them two
of the brave boys were on the floor & the third was vanishing through
the doors to the next carriage.
It turns out the girls were on there way home from their judo (or
similar) class.
The applause from the rest of the carriage was amazing.

--
Tony the Dragon

On Sun, 08 Jun 2008 21:48:44 +0100, Tony Dragon
wrote this gibberish:

MarkVarley - MVP wrote:
On Sun, 8 Jun 2008 17:06:38 +0100, "Batman55"
wrote this gibberish:

Today I had to travel from Bromley South to Denmark Hill accompanied by my
13yr old grandson, who expressed concerns about safety. I reassured him and,
as far as Nunhead at least, all was well. There a middle aged drunk got on,
complete with beer can, and ambled down the carriage with an inane grin on
his face. He sat down, put his can in the walkway and emptied his pockets of
various items (one of which appeared to be a Freedom Pass) on the seat
opposite me, then mumbled to a man sitting near him, before rising,
collecting his bits and ambling off the train again at Peckham Rye, still
grinning. Not frightening, but still the sort of thing which causes concern.

On arrival at Denmark Hill, as we approached the stairs, a girl of around 20
(although her face looked about 60) with beer can in hand stopped to stare
at a baby in a pram and to question its mother, who hastily declined any
help with the buggy. Similar sort of situation as above.

On my return, alone, I had a 20 minute wait. After a few minutes 3 youths
and a girl arrived, took over one of the benches and by their behaviour
forced the female occupant to move away. They were not threatening to other
passengers (sorry, customers) but argued amongst themselves. On the train,
during the journey to Bellingham where they alighted, they passed back and
forth through the train shouting at each other, which is always of concern
to anyone with property.

Finally, as we pulled into Ravensbourne, there were 4 teenagers, probably
15-17, with hoods of various types on the platform. They moved past my
window at the start of the rear carriage and I expected to hear them get on.
A few moments later, there was a sudden shout from the rear of the carriage:
"****, he's taken my bag". By the time I could see down the fairly full
carriage, they had all disappeared up the adjacent exit. The train then
proceeded to Bromley where I alighted and the female victim went to report
her loss.

So, nothing happened to me, I wasn't threatened or harassed, I won't be
statistic but no, along with other passengers I didn't enjoy my trip!

MaxB



I've had a few journeys with people I felt a need to keep an eye on,
only had to act on anothers behalf once and 'discourage' people a
couple of times. that might be alot as I've only been in London for 2
years but I often travel late at night so maybe I meet more 'bad'
people than most.

goes with the territory I feel.

I once saw a couple of young ladies (20ish) being bothered by three
louts on the Northern Line. I was about to help said girls (how I don't
know, I'm past my sell by date) but before I got anywhere near them two
of the brave boys were on the floor & the third was vanishing through
the doors to the next carriage.
It turns out the girls were on there way home from their judo (or
similar) class.
The applause from the rest of the carriage was amazing.

Anyone who takes anyone at face value is in for a surprise, I know
several friends more than capable of 'looking after themselves' who
don't look like it, one comes to mind who is a petite and feminine
model I work with often, who has also been doing kung-fu her whole
life.

I've never seen anyone surprised the way you describe but, thankfully,
it must happen alot.
--
Mark Varley
www.MarkVarleyPhoto.co.uk
www.TwistedPhotography.co.uk
London, England.

"MarkVarley - MVP" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 08 Jun 2008 21:48:44 +0100, Tony Dragon
wrote this gibberish:

MarkVarley - MVP wrote:
On Sun, 8 Jun 2008 17:06:38 +0100, "Batman55"
wrote this gibberish:

Today I had to travel from Bromley South to Denmark Hill accompanied by
my
13yr old grandson, who expressed concerns about safety.

snip
Finally, as we pulled into Ravensbourne, there were 4 teenagers,
probably
15-17, with hoods of various types on the platform. They moved past my
window at the start of the rear carriage and I expected to hear them
get on.
A few moments later, there was a sudden shout from the rear of the
carriage:
"****, he's taken my bag". By the time I could see down the fairly full
carriage, they had all disappeared up the adjacent exit. The train then
proceeded to Bromley where I alighted and the female victim went to
report
her loss.

So, nothing happened to me, I wasn't threatened or harassed, I won't be
statistic but no, along with other passengers I didn't enjoy my trip!

MaxB



I've had a few journeys with people I felt a need to keep an eye on,
only had to act on anothers behalf once and 'discourage' people a
couple of times. that might be alot as I've only been in London for 2
years but I often travel late at night so maybe I meet more 'bad'
people than most.

goes with the territory I feel.

I once saw a couple of young ladies (20ish) being bothered by three
louts on the Northern Line. I was about to help said girls (how I don't
know, I'm past my sell by date) but before I got anywhere near them two
of the brave boys were on the floor & the third was vanishing through
the doors to the next carriage.
It turns out the girls were on there way home from their judo (or
similar) class.
The applause from the rest of the carriage was amazing.

Anyone who takes anyone at face value is in for a surprise, I know
several friends more than capable of 'looking after themselves' who
don't look like it, one comes to mind who is a petite and feminine
model I work with often, who has also been doing kung-fu her whole
life.

I've never seen anyone surprised the way you describe but, thankfully,
it must happen alot.
--
Mark Varley
www.MarkVarleyPhoto.co.uk
www.TwistedPhotography.co.uk
London, England.

In this case, clearly, people were taken totally by surprise - a mugging at
the quietest station in London on a quiet Sunday afternoon is not what was
expected. It was ironic to hear some prat on Today this morning explaining
how the little dears are misunderstood and "demonised", and some of them
even get locked up occasionally and this infringes their human rights! Oh
dear!

MaxB

On 8 Jun, 20:55, MarkVarley - MVP
wrote:
On Sun, 8 Jun 2008 17:06:38 +0100, "Batman55"
wrote this gibberish:



Today I had to travel from Bromley South to Denmark Hill accompanied by my
13yr old grandson, who expressed concerns about safety. I reassured him and,
as far as Nunhead at least, all was well. There a middle aged drunk got on,
complete with beer can, and ambled down the carriage with an inane grin on
his face. He sat down, put his can in the walkway and emptied his pockets of
various items (one of which appeared to be a Freedom Pass) on the seat
opposite me, then mumbled to a man sitting near him, before rising,
collecting his bits and ambling off the train again at Peckham Rye, still
grinning. Not frightening, but still the sort of thing which causes concern.

"Railist" wrote in message
...
On 8 Jun, 20:55, MarkVarley - MVP
wrote:
On Sun, 8 Jun 2008 17:06:38 +0100, "Batman55"
wrote this gibberish:



Today I had to travel from Bromley South to Denmark Hill accompanied by
my
13yr old grandson, who expressed concerns about safety. I reassured him
and,
as far as Nunhead at least, all was well. There a middle aged drunk got
on,
complete with beer can, and ambled down the carriage with an inane grin
on
his face. He sat down, put his can in the walkway and emptied his pockets
of
various items (one of which appeared to be a Freedom Pass) on the seat
opposite me, then mumbled to a man sitting near him, before rising,
collecting his bits and ambling off the train again at Peckham Rye, still
grinning. Not frightening, but still the sort of thing which causes
concern.

On arrival at Denmark Hill, as we approached the stairs, a girl of around
20
(although her face looked about 60) with beer can in hand stopped to
stare
at a baby in a pram and to question its mother, who hastily declined any
help with the buggy. Similar sort of situation as above.

On my return, alone, I had a 20 minute wait. After a few minutes 3 youths
and a girl arrived, took over one of the benches and by their behaviour
forced the female occupant to move away. They were not threatening to
other
passengers (sorry, customers) but argued amongst themselves. On the
train,
during the journey to Bellingham where they alighted, they passed back
and
forth through the train shouting at each other, which is always of
concern
to anyone with property.

Finally, as we pulled into Ravensbourne, there were 4 teenagers, probably
15-17, with hoods of various types on the platform. They moved past my
window at the start of the rear carriage and I expected to hear them get
on.
A few moments later, there was a sudden shout from the rear of the
carriage:
"****, he's taken my bag". By the time I could see down the fairly full
carriage, they had all disappeared up the adjacent exit. The train then
proceeded to Bromley where I alighted and the female victim went to
report
her loss.

So, nothing happened to me, I wasn't threatened or harassed, I won't be
statistic but no, along with other passengers I didn't enjoy my trip!

MaxB

I've had a few journeys with people I felt a need to keep an eye on,
only had to act on anothers behalf once and 'discourage' people a
couple of times. that might be alot as I've only been in London for 2
years but I often travel late at night so maybe I meet more 'bad'
people than most.

goes with the territory I feel.

--
Mark Varleywww.MarkVarleyPhoto.co.ukwww.TwistedPhotogra phy.co.uk
London, England.

So basically, you made a journey with "the wrong type of passengers"
so you've made all kinds of assumptions about the ne'er do wells you
witnessed. It's a real shame that someone got their back stolen, but
to say that this is the reality of suburban travel is quite a leap of
logic. Mind you... it could be the reality of suburban travel on
SouthEastern.

Whether they are the right or wrong assumptions, and the bag snatch was
certainly real, perception is all. No one will be encouraged to get out of
their cars if they fear, or experience, the actions of the small number but
highly visible louts who travel on trains and buses, in the suburbs in
particular.

A further point, of course, is that no station staff were seen anywhere
between London and Bromley, and the train had no guard.


MaxB

On Mon, 9 Jun 2008 02:19:36 -0700 (PDT), Railist
wrote this gibberish:

On 8 Jun, 20:55, MarkVarley - MVP
wrote:
On Sun, 8 Jun 2008 17:06:38 +0100, "Batman55"
wrote this gibberish:



Today I had to travel from Bromley South to Denmark Hill accompanied by my
13yr old grandson, who expressed concerns about safety. I reassured him and,
as far as Nunhead at least, all was well. There a middle aged drunk got on,
complete with beer can, and ambled down the carriage with an inane grin on
his face. He sat down, put his can in the walkway and emptied his pockets of
various items (one of which appeared to be a Freedom Pass) on the seat
opposite me, then mumbled to a man sitting near him, before rising,
collecting his bits and ambling off the train again at Peckham Rye, still
grinning. Not frightening, but still the sort of thing which causes concern.

On arrival at Denmark Hill, as we approached the stairs, a girl of around 20
(although her face looked about 60) with beer can in hand stopped to stare
at a baby in a pram and to question its mother, who hastily declined any
help with the buggy. Similar sort of situation as above.

On my return, alone, I had a 20 minute wait. After a few minutes 3 youths
and *a girl arrived, took over one of the benches and by their behaviour
forced the female occupant to move away. They were not threatening to other
passengers (sorry, customers) but argued amongst themselves. On the train,
during the journey to Bellingham where they alighted, they passed back and
forth through the train shouting at each other, which is always of concern
to anyone with property.

Finally, as we pulled into Ravensbourne, there were 4 teenagers, probably
15-17, with hoods of various types on the platform. They moved past my
window at the start of the rear carriage and I expected to hear them get on.
A few moments later, there was a sudden shout from the rear of the carriage:
"****, he's taken my bag". By the time I could see down the fairly full
carriage, they had all disappeared up the adjacent exit. The train then
proceeded to Bromley where I alighted and the female victim went to report
her loss.

So, nothing happened to me, I wasn't threatened or harassed, I won't be
statistic but no, along with other passengers I didn't enjoy my trip!

MaxB

I've had a few journeys with people I felt a need to keep an eye on,
only had to act on anothers behalf once and 'discourage' people a
couple of times. that might be alot as I've only been in London for 2
years but I often travel late at night so maybe I meet more 'bad'
people than most.

goes with the territory I feel.

--
Mark Varleywww.MarkVarleyPhoto.co.ukwww.TwistedPhotogra phy.co.uk
London, England.

So basically, you made a journey with "the wrong type of passengers"
so you've made all kinds of assumptions about the ne'er do wells you
witnessed. It's a real shame that someone got their back stolen, but
to say that this is the reality of suburban travel is quite a leap of
logic. Mind you... it could be the reality of suburban travel on
SouthEastern.

As you replied to my post I'll answer.
'the wrong type of passengers', no, just sometimes come across people
with selfish intent I feel the need to keep an eye on.
I make no assumptions, I make judgments.
It is the reality, it happened, it happens, it's real.
--
Mark Varley
www.MarkVarleyPhoto.co.uk
www.TwistedPhotography.co.uk
London, England.

MarkVarley - MVP wrote:

On Mon, 9 Jun 2008 02:19:36 -0700 (PDT), Railist
wrote this gibberish:

On 8 Jun, 20:55, MarkVarley - MVP
wrote:
On Sun, 8 Jun 2008 17:06:38 +0100, "Batman55"
wrote this gibberish:



Today I had to travel from Bromley South to Denmark Hill accompanied by my
13yr old grandson, who expressed concerns about safety. I reassured him and,
as far as Nunhead at least, all was well. There a middle aged drunk got on,
complete with beer can, and ambled down the carriage with an inane grin on
his face. He sat down, put his can in the walkway and emptied his pockets of
various items (one of which appeared to be a Freedom Pass) on the seat
opposite me, then mumbled to a man sitting near him, before rising,
collecting his bits and ambling off the train again at Peckham Rye, still
grinning. Not frightening, but still the sort of thing which causes concern.

On arrival at Denmark Hill, as we approached the stairs, a girl of around 20
(although her face looked about 60) with beer can in hand stopped to stare
at a baby in a pram and to question its mother, who hastily declined any
help with the buggy. Similar sort of situation as above.

On my return, alone, I had a 20 minute wait. After a few minutes 3 youths
and �a girl arrived, took over one of the benches and by their behaviour
forced the female occupant to move away. They were not threatening to other
passengers (sorry, customers) but argued amongst themselves. On the train,
during the journey to Bellingham where they alighted, they passed back and
forth through the train shouting at each other, which is always of concern
to anyone with property.

Finally, as we pulled into Ravensbourne, there were 4 teenagers, probably
15-17, with hoods of various types on the platform. They moved past my
window at the start of the rear carriage and I expected to hear them get on.
A few moments later, there was a sudden shout from the rear of the carriage:
"****, he's taken my bag". By the time I could see down the fairly full
carriage, they had all disappeared up the adjacent exit. The train then
proceeded to Bromley where I alighted and the female victim went to report
her loss.

So, nothing happened to me, I wasn't threatened or harassed, I won't be
statistic but no, along with other passengers I didn't enjoy my trip!

MaxB

I've had a few journeys with people I felt a need to keep an eye on,
only had to act on anothers behalf once and 'discourage' people a
couple of times. that might be alot as I've only been in London for 2
years but I often travel late at night so maybe I meet more 'bad'
people than most.

goes with the territory I feel.

--
Mark Varleywww.MarkVarleyPhoto.co.ukwww.TwistedPhotogra phy.co.uk
London, England.

So basically, you made a journey with "the wrong type of passengers"
so you've made all kinds of assumptions about the ne'er do wells you
witnessed. It's a real shame that someone got their back stolen, but
to say that this is the reality of suburban travel is quite a leap of
logic. Mind you... it could be the reality of suburban travel on
SouthEastern.

As you replied to my post I'll answer.
'the wrong type of passengers', no, just sometimes come across people
with selfish intent I feel the need to keep an eye on.
I make no assumptions, I make judgments.
It is the reality, it happened, it happens, it's real.


I have used south eastern suburban services constantly for the last
nineteen years (and other suburban routes for years before that) and
could count the number of dodgy situations on the fingers of one hand
(eg a loony who clearly wanted to wind people up so that he could
start a fight late on a Friday night but didn't find any takers).

The only person who has ever abused me and threatened me with violence
was a train driver (and it was extreme abuse and extreme threats from
a driver who didn't know how to work his PIS or make an announcement).

So I sympathise with the poster who didn't like the other passengers,
and for witnessing one actual theft, but to present suburban public
transport as threatening is playing into the hands of dodgy lobbies
(car, stop-and-search etc).

Just get on with your own life and let people get on with theirs
without judging each other.

MarkVarley - MVP wrote:

On Sun, 08 Jun 2008 21:48:44 +0100, Tony Dragon
wrote this gibberish:

MarkVarley - MVP wrote:
On Sun, 8 Jun 2008 17:06:38 +0100, "Batman55"
wrote this gibberish:

snip journey

So, nothing happened to me, I wasn't threatened or harassed, I won't be
statistic but no, along with other passengers I didn't enjoy my trip!

MaxB



I've had a few journeys with people I felt a need to keep an eye on,
only had to act on anothers behalf once and 'discourage' people a
couple of times. that might be alot as I've only been in London for 2
years but I often travel late at night so maybe I meet more 'bad'
people than most.

goes with the territory I feel.

I once saw a couple of young ladies (20ish) being bothered by three
louts on the Northern Line. I was about to help said girls (how I don't
know, I'm past my sell by date) but before I got anywhere near them two
of the brave boys were on the floor & the third was vanishing through
the doors to the next carriage.
It turns out the girls were on there way home from their judo (or
similar) class.
The applause from the rest of the carriage was amazing.

Anyone who takes anyone at face value is in for a surprise, I know
several friends more than capable of 'looking after themselves' who
don't look like it, one comes to mind who is a petite and feminine
model I work with often, who has also been doing kung-fu her whole
life.

I've never seen anyone surprised the way you describe but, thankfully,
it must happen alot.

best i read was the lad who tryed to mug a blind man, who happened to be
the world judo champion i think if i recall right, as might be expected
it didn't go quite to plan...

roger
--
www.rogermerriman.com