The usual suspects, Alstom, Bombardier, Siemens; plus Hitachi, have applied
to build the Thameslink EMUs.

This phase of the procurement process seems fairly predictable, would the
DfT not save time and money by prequalifying the first three for any future
UK rolling stock builds, or would that be against the rules, in case there
are other train builders around who might be interested?

http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/rail/pi/th...meslinkbidders

Paul S

On Jul 14, 2:09 pm, "Paul Scott"
wrote:
The usual suspects, Alstom, Bombardier, Siemens; plus Hitachi, have applied
to build the Thameslink EMUs.

This phase of the procurement process seems fairly predictable, would the
DfT not save time and money by prequalifying the first three for any future
UK rolling stock builds, or would that be against the rules, in case there
are other train builders around who might be interested?

The DfT would save even more taxpayers money if they just built
another batch of the dual voltage 376/377 series with any appropriate
traction system upgrades. But that would require a bit of common sense
in government - a rare commodity.

B2003

On Jul 14, 2:59 pm, wrote:
On Jul 14, 2:09 pm, "Paul Scott"
wrote:

The usual suspects, Alstom, Bombardier, Siemens; plus Hitachi, have applied
to build the Thameslink EMUs.

This phase of the procurement process seems fairly predictable, would the
DfT not save time and money by prequalifying the first three for any future
UK rolling stock builds, or would that be against the rules, in case there
are other train builders around who might be interested?

The DfT would save even more taxpayers money if they just built
another batch of the dual voltage 376/377 series with any appropriate
traction system upgrades. But that would require a bit of common sense
in government - a rare commodity.

Yes in the short term. In the long term, it's likely to be more cost
effective to not give a single manufacturer a monopoly in the supply
of UK suburban rolling stock (and Siemens would've been justifiably
****ed off, given that a batch of dual-voltage 350s would be pretty
much equivalent to a batch of 37xes).

However, it would have been much more sensible (ie cheap) to make the
TL2k+n specification equivalent to "Desiro or Electrostar, but a bit
faster and a bit lighter; if you're not Siemens or Bombardier you're
welcome to bid but bear in mind that we're not going to pay the
development costs of a whole new train platform", rather than going
for a step change in capabilities and weights.

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org

On 14 Jul, 17:38, John B wrote:
However, it would have been much more sensible (ie cheap) to make the
TL2k+n specification equivalent to "Desiro or Electrostar, but a bit
faster and a bit lighter; if you're not Siemens or Bombardier you're
welcome to bid but bear in mind that we're not going to pay the
development costs of a whole new train platform", rather than going
for a step change in capabilities and weights.

But how have they not done that? I'm sure Bombardier and Siemens' bids
won't be far off a "Desiro or Electrostar, but a bit faster and a bit
lighter", and the other companies' bids likewise.

U

--
http://londonconnections.blogspot.com/
A blog about transport projects in London

On 14 Jul, 18:47, Mr Thant
wrote:
On 14 Jul, 17:38, John B wrote:

However, it would have been much more sensible (ie cheap) to make the
TL2k+n specification equivalent to "Desiro or Electrostar, but a bit
faster and a bit lighter; if you're not Siemens or Bombardier you're
welcome to bid but bear in mind that we're not going to pay the
development costs of a whole new train platform", rather than going
for a step change in capabilities and weights.

But how have they not done that? I'm sure Bombardier and Siemens' bids
won't be far off a "Desiro or Electrostar, but a bit faster and a bit
lighter", and the other companies' bids likewise.

I'm not a procurement expert, but Uncle Roger seems to think that the
DfT specification is far too complicated/hard to achieve (not least
the self-propulsion).

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org

On Mon, 14 Jul 2008 11:29:35 -0700 (PDT), John B
wrote:

I'm not a procurement expert, but Uncle Roger seems to think that the
DfT specification is far too complicated/hard to achieve (not least
the self-propulsion).

The Thameslink EMUs aren't IEP, just bog-standard 20m 4-car EMUs.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

On Jul 14, 7:29 pm, John B wrote:
I'm not a procurement expert, but Uncle Roger seems to think that the
DfT specification is far too complicated/hard to achieve (not least
the self-propulsion).

Self propelled? Wtf is that all about? And how would you achieve it
without dragging around a barn full of batteries slung under one of
the cards?

B2003

On Jul 14, 5:38 pm, John B wrote:
Yes in the short term. In the long term, it's likely to be more cost
effective to not give a single manufacturer a monopoly in the supply
of UK suburban rolling stock (and Siemens would've been justifiably
****ed off, given that a batch of dual-voltage 350s would be pretty
much equivalent to a batch of 37xes).


Who has copyright of the designs of these trains? Is it retained by
the manufacturer or is it owned by the DfT? If the latter couldn't
they just farm the work out to a number of seperate builders as has
been done in the past on BR and LUL?

B2003

wrote:
On Jul 14, 5:38 pm, John B wrote:
Yes in the short term. In the long term, it's likely to be more cost
effective to not give a single manufacturer a monopoly in the supply
of UK suburban rolling stock (and Siemens would've been justifiably
****ed off, given that a batch of dual-voltage 350s would be pretty
much equivalent to a batch of 37xes).


Who has copyright of the designs of these trains? Is it retained by
the manufacturer or is it owned by the DfT? If the latter couldn't
they just farm the work out to a number of seperate builders as has
been done in the past on BR and LUL?

Generally the manufacturer, but the customer might own frilly bits like
a fancy nose. Voyager noses have been mentioned in the past - Meridians
are a bit different. AIUI the South Africans own the right to the nose
of their Electrostars.

Presumably farming it out might make maintenance-inclusive packages more
tricky.

--
Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK

On Jul 15, 7:29 pm, Arthur Figgis wrote:
Generally the manufacturer, but the customer might own frilly bits like
a fancy nose. Voyager noses have been mentioned in the past - Meridians
are a bit different. AIUI the South Africans own the right to the nose
of their Electrostars.

I guess they nose a good deal when they see one

Ahem.

B2003