In message , at 15:40:32 on Sun,
20 Jul 2008, Neil Williams remarked:
On Sat, 19 Jul 2008 14:04:17 +0100, Roland Perry
wrote:

Perversely, they charge habitual rush-hour travellers lower fares.

Abolishing this suddenly would probably cause economic meltdown in
London and the South East (and by extension the rest of the UK),
though.

Maybe so. If the chancellor's statement this weekend can be taken at
face value [cough splutter] then in the absence of future investment in
railways, we must either stem the demand by pricing, or hope that mass
unemployment caused by the underlying economic ills causes less
commuting.

Not that we necessarily want to wish unemployment on those who are
*gainfully* employed.

While I agree that lots of commuting is not desirable, it needs to be
dealt with the other way, such as a phased-in legal requirement to
allow (or even mandate) home working for employees (such as office
workers, call centre workers etc) where it is feasible with modern-day
technology.

What you can't replicate with today's technology is the human
interaction that makes most white-collar workplaces function
effectively.
--
Roland Perry

Neil Williams wrote:
On Sat, 19 Jul 2008 14:04:17 +0100, Roland Perry
wrote:
Perversely, they charge habitual rush-hour travellers lower fares.

Perhaps a half-way house would be to remove the discount for rail
commuters continuing their journeys from London termini by zone 1
tube. The whole of zone 1 is within easy cycling distance of all
termini, and zone 1 tube is the only area that needs new lines to
increase capacity. You would of course need lots of secure cycle
parking at the termini.

For mainline rail, an adjustment to the financial rules is needed so
that they can run at line and platform capacity throughout the rush
hour. This needs more rolling stock, spending more of its time idle -
but that means it should last longer, reducing the extra cost.

Abolishing this suddenly would probably cause economic meltdown in
London and the South East (and by extension the rest of the UK),
though.

Suddenly, yes. In the state sector at least, a job swap programme
could help people reduce their commutes by working closer to home.

Colin McKenzie

--
No-one has ever proved that cycle helmets make cycling any safer at
the population level, and anyway cycling is about as safe per mile as
walking.
Make an informed choice - visit www.cyclehelmets.org.

On Sat, 19 Jul 2008 13:39:14 +0100, "Maria"
wrote this gibberish:


"Jonathan" wrote in message
.. .
Public transport has always been awful; and over the past couple of years
I've noticed that more and more often I'm squashed inside a bus or train,
with hardly enough room to breathe, because the company decided to cancel
earlier buses or trains without notice, and without making any alternative
arrangements.

Because I believe that this gross-overcrowding is a serious risk to public
health and safety, I've created a petition at
http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/sardines/ asking for action to be taken to stop
this gross-overcrowding.

Therefore, if anyone else here shares my concerns, please co-sign the
petition, and if possible, please pass the message along to a few friends.

Jonathan


Good idea. I've always thought there should be an active campaign to
discourage people who don't have to travel in rush hour from using public
transport at peak times.

María


I go to great lengths to avoid moving anywhere at peak times, I pity
the regular commuters who deal with the sheer unpleasantness of public
transport from the handful of times I've found myself with little
choice to.
the horror...
the horror......
the horror.........

--
Mark Varley
www.MarkVarleyPhoto.co.uk
www.TwistedPhotography.co.uk
London, England.

"MarkVarley - MVP" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 19 Jul 2008 13:39:14 +0100, "Maria"
wrote this gibberish:


"Jonathan" wrote in message
. ..
Public transport has always been awful; and over the past couple of
years
I've noticed that more and more often I'm squashed inside a bus or
train,
with hardly enough room to breathe, because the company decided to
cancel
earlier buses or trains without notice, and without making any
alternative
arrangements.

Because I believe that this gross-overcrowding is a serious risk to
public
health and safety, I've created a petition at
http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/sardines/ asking for action to be taken to
stop
this gross-overcrowding.

Therefore, if anyone else here shares my concerns, please co-sign the
petition, and if possible, please pass the message along to a few
friends.

Jonathan


Good idea. I've always thought there should be an active campaign to
discourage people who don't have to travel in rush hour from using public
transport at peak times.

María


I go to great lengths to avoid moving anywhere at peak times, I pity
the regular commuters who deal with the sheer unpleasantness of public
transport from the handful of times I've found myself with little
choice to.
the horror...
the horror......
the horror.........


Exactly my feelings, hence why I took a sizeable pay cut and moved to
somewhere nice with little traffic, rather than living in the London suburbs
(Highgate, Northolt, then Uxbridge), working in the City and commuting on
the bus and tube. AWFUL experience. Never again.

Mike P

"Maria" wrote in message
...

"Jonathan" wrote in message
...
Public transport has always been awful; and over the past couple of years
I've noticed that more and more often I'm squashed inside a bus or train,
with hardly enough room to breathe, because the company decided to cancel
earlier buses or trains without notice, and without making any
alternative arrangements.

Because I believe that this gross-overcrowding is a serious risk to
public health and safety, I've created a petition at
http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/sardines/ asking for action to be taken to
stop this gross-overcrowding.

Therefore, if anyone else here shares my concerns, please co-sign the
petition, and if possible, please pass the message along to a few
friends.

Jonathan


Good idea. I've always thought there should be an active campaign to
discourage people who don't have to travel in rush hour from using public
transport at peak times.

But we do have this policy.

It's achieved by charging much higher fares in the peak.

(Or it was, until the Oyster virus came along)

tim

"tim.." wrote in message

"Maria" wrote in message
...
Good idea. I've always thought there should be an active campaign to
discourage people who don't have to travel in rush hour from using
public transport at peak times.

But we do have this policy.

It's achieved by charging much higher fares in the peak.

(Or it was, until the Oyster virus came along)

Well, Oyster does encourage journeys to start before 7am, after 7pm and
after 9:30am. I suppose it could have a more complicated structure that
specifically raised zone 1 prices in the peaks, but even fewer people
would understand it then.

On Jul 21, 2:14 pm, "Recliner" wrote:
Well, Oyster does encourage journeys to start before 7am, after 7pm and
after 9:30am.

If "encourage" is a euphamism for blatantly ripping people off during
morning peak hours then yes. Though this has been going on for years.
Presumably its a nice little money spinner screwing extra cash out of
tourists and other people without season tickets. Notice how there are
no big signs up warning people of the extra cost in the mornings. Poor
old Pierre arrives on the early morning eurostar and then gets taken
for another ride by LUL before he's even stepped on a train without
even knowing it.

B2003

On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 14:14:32 +0100, "Recliner"
wrote:

Well, Oyster does encourage journeys to start before 7am, after 7pm and
after 9:30am. I suppose it could have a more complicated structure that
specifically raised zone 1 prices in the peaks, but even fewer people
would understand it then.

And the nature of Oyster, especially with PAYG, distracts you away
from the price anyway, just like post-payment of electricity bills[1]
and the likes.

[1] I've long thought that one of the best ways to reduce home
electricity consumption (to benefit the environment) would be to
mandate the use of pre-payment card meters as the only method of
payment.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

In message , Jonathan
writes

Public transport has always been awful; and over the past couple of years
I've noticed that more and more often I'm squashed inside a bus or train,
with hardly enough room to breathe, because the company decided to cancel
earlier buses or trains without notice, and without making any alternative
arrangements.

Because I believe that this gross-overcrowding is a serious risk to public
health and safety, I've created a petition at
http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/sardines/ asking for action to be taken to stop
this gross-overcrowding.

Therefore, if anyone else here shares my concerns, please co-sign the
petition, and if possible, please pass the message along to a few friends.

If you're stupid enough to cram yourself on an already full bus or
train, you only have yourself to blame - it's not like anyone's stood at
the stop forcing you to get on.
--
Steve Fitzgerald has now left the building.
You will find him in London's Docklands, E16, UK
(please use the reply to address for email)

On Jul 27, 7:27 pm, Steve Fitzgerald ] wrote:
Therefore, if anyone else here shares my concerns, please co-sign the
petition, and if possible, please pass the message along to a few friends.

If you're stupid enough to cram yourself on an already full bus or
train, you only have yourself to blame - it's not like anyone's stood at
the stop forcing you to get on.

So you don't have to be in work at a certain time? No one would force
themselves on a bus or train if they knew the next one was coming 2
minutes later and was almost empty. However thats generally not the
case is it.

B2003