Richard J. wrote:

Does anyone know what the rules are on National Rail OPO trains if the cab
radio fails?

It depends on the TOC, but the basics a

+ Stop and inform the Signaller (generally by use of the Signal Post
Telephone at the next signal)

+ The train is NOT to be moved until instructed

+ Deal with the train in accordance with the TOC's contingency plan

Cheers,

Barry

On 16 Aug, 14:38, chunky munky wrote:
You cannot carry on empty in a single track tunnel with a defective
radio unless a second person is also with the train operator or the
OPO alarm still transmits.

That is the rule, sure. Is there a reason why that is the rule (given
that the publicly stated reason for gibberingly paranoid radio failure
"no trains anywhere" rules is passenger protection)? If so, what is
the reason?

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org

On Aug 17, 11:35 pm, John B wrote:
On 16 Aug, 14:38, chunky munky wrote:

You cannot carry on empty in a single track tunnel with a defective
radio unless a second person is also with the train operator or the
OPO alarm still transmits.

That is the rule, sure. Is there a reason why that is the rule (given
that the publicly stated reason for gibberingly paranoid radio failure
"no trains anywhere" rules is passenger protection)? If so, what is
the reason?

--
John Band
john at johnband dot orgwww.johnband.org

The new no radio, no train came in after 2005 bombings through an
Opeational Standards Notice. It dealt with indivdual train, localised
radio failure and complete failure. It was then added into the new
rule book (where as most contents of the revious reference manual were
ommitted).
Is it right to send a train with possibly over 1000 out with no way of
contacting someone should there be a delay to the service, then maybe
requiring the train to be held or diverted, or a passenger alarm is
operated and requires further assistance, or a one under requiring
traction current off? Okay, Tunnel Telephone is there for emergency
use but will also switch off the Traction Current, unless the
overiders happen to be on and being just a handset of dirty copper
wires dont expect very good line quality.
You could of course phone on a BT line as well, then join all the
other calls waiting to be answered by the Service Controller.

Fear of even worse PR must be a key factor, but it also prompts people
to keep the thing working (most of the time anyway), otherwise they
would never bother keeping it working!
The train radio must work for a modern tube, because of modern London.

On Aug 18, 4:33 am, chunky munky
wrote:
You cannot carry on empty in a single track tunnel with a defective
radio unless a second person is also with the train operator or the
OPO alarm still transmits.

That is the rule, sure. Is there a reason why that is the rule (given
that the publicly stated reason for gibberingly paranoid radio failure
"no trains anywhere" rules is passenger protection)? If so, what is
the reason?

[...]
Is it right to send a train with possibly over 1000 out with no way of
contacting someone should there be a delay to the service, then maybe
requiring the train to be held or diverted, or a passenger alarm is
operated and requires further assistance, or a one under requiring
traction current off?

Quite possibly not, but I was specifically referring to the ban on
running *empty* trains on OPO when Connect is down.

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org

In message
,
John B writes
You cannot carry on empty in a single track tunnel with a defective
radio unless a second person is also with the train operator or the
OPO alarm still transmits.

That is the rule, sure. Is there a reason why that is the rule (given
that the publicly stated reason for gibberingly paranoid radio failure
"no trains anywhere" rules is passenger protection)? If so, what is
the reason?

[...]
Is it right to send a train with possibly over 1000 out with no way of
contacting someone should there be a delay to the service, then maybe
requiring the train to be held or diverted, or a passenger alarm is
operated and requires further assistance, or a one under requiring
traction current off?

Quite possibly not, but I was specifically referring to the ban on
running *empty* trains on OPO when Connect is down.

There is no ban.

You may have missed the bit that said 'unless a second person is also
with the train operator or the OPO alarm still works' which is what they
do.

We still run OOS when the radio fails until we get back into a section
where it's working (or outside and you can use the Airwave radios we
keep, if they're available) and re-enter service. If the whole system's
down, it's hardly worthwhile running a fleet of empty trains about
though.
--
Steve Fitzgerald has now left the building.
You will find him in London's Docklands, E16, UK
(please use the reply to address for email)

On Aug 18, 3:29 pm, Steve Fitzgerald ] wrote:
You cannot carry on empty in a single track tunnel with a defective
radio unless a second person is also with the train operator or the
OPO alarm still transmits.

That is the rule, sure. Is there a reason why that is the rule (given
that the publicly stated reason for gibberingly paranoid radio failure
"no trains anywhere" rules is passenger protection)? If so, what is
the reason?

[...]
Is it right to send a train with possibly over 1000 out with no way of
contacting someone should there be a delay to the service, then maybe
requiring the train to be held or diverted, or a passenger alarm is
operated and requires further assistance, or a one under requiring
traction current off?

Quite possibly not, but I was specifically referring to the ban on
running *empty* trains on OPO when Connect is down.

There is no ban.

You may have missed the bit that said 'unless a second person is also
with the train operator or the OPO alarm still works' which is what they
do.

Not missed, perhaps misinterpreted - I'd assumed that if Connect was
down then the OPO alarm would most likely also be down. If not, then
it's less of an issue.

But I still don't quite understand why these precautions (ie no empty,
single-manned trains if the Connect radio and the OPO alarm aren't
working) are necessary, given that the safety issues with OPO compared
to double-manning are passenger-related rather than train-related.


We still run OOS when the radio fails until we get back into a section
where it's working (or outside and you can use the Airwave radios we
keep, if they're available) and re-enter service. If the whole system's
down, it's hardly worthwhile running a fleet of empty trains about
though.

Well, clearly - but if it allows trains to operate a full above-ground
passenger service (either reversing underground or running through as
normal), rather than cutting it back to run solely between reversing
points, it's probably a better option. After all, the drivers and
trains are already paid for...

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org

In message
,
John B writes

Not missed, perhaps misinterpreted - I'd assumed that if Connect was
down then the OPO alarm would most likely also be down. If not, then
it's less of an issue.

Usually the case although they do use different parts of the kit and
thus it's possible to have one without the other - just depends on the
defect.

But I still don't quite understand why these precautions (ie no empty,
single-manned trains if the Connect radio and the OPO alarm aren't
working) are necessary, given that the safety issues with OPO compared
to double-manning are passenger-related rather than train-related.

The OPO alarm is there in case the driver collapses; it sends an alarm
to the Control room if the TBC (deadman) is not depressed within 1.5
minutes of being released.

Assuming a radio fault situation, how long would it take to get someone
down there to see if the driver's OK, bearing in mind you have no
contact to know if the driver's OK and might have just attended to a
defect and drive his/her train out of the tunnel at any time? At least
with an OPO alarm, they have an idea what might be happening and can
scramble the train behind to move forward and investigate quickly.
--
Steve Fitzgerald has now left the building.
You will find him in London's Docklands, E16, UK
(please use the reply to address for email)