Doug wrote:
On 16 Aug, 14:48, (Steve Firth) wrote:
John Rowland wrote:
http://www.abd.org.uk/pr/634.htm
I'm not sure who the Association of British Drivers are, so I'm not sure how
much to read into this.
It's hardly news. Anyone working in transport/telematics already knew
that Livingstone had issued an edict that the lights across London were
to be rephased to cause congestion prior to the introduction of the
congestion charge. In fact I stated this was what was happening here at
the time and had the usual cabal of ****wits and some who should have
known better screaming that it was a lie.

Road congestion is primarily caused by too many cars and if left to
its own devices would be self-limiting. Indeed it could even result in
a reduction of car travel as motorists get fed up with so many delays
they are themselves responsible for. Unfortunately, our road spaces
are allowed to be demand driven resulting in perpetual roadbuilding
and widening and tinkering to the detriment of the environment and
quality of life of many people.

--
World Carfree Network
http://www.worldcarfree.net/
Help for your car-addicted friends in the U.K.

As i travel around South London a lot, you would have thought that I
would have noticed the 'perpetual roadbuilding and widening and
tinkering', but apart from a few new residential roads being built at
the same time as new housing I can think of none.
There is very little if any road widening taking place.
The majority of 'tinkering' is to stop up roads (leaving cycle
access)lowering speed limits & creating one way streets. This is usually
to stop rat runs & protect schools.
Woolwich is on of the worst areas at the moment with road tinkering &
that is to allow the extension of the DLR.

I hope you will still be able to cycle with your damaged foot, the one
you just shot yourself in.
--
Tony the Dragon

In message , Tony Dragon
writes
I hope you will still be able to cycle with your damaged foot, the one
you just shot yourself in.

That's Doug 'Colander Foot' Bollen you're talking to.


--
Ed Banger

Ed Banger wrote:
In message , Tony Dragon
writes
I hope you will still be able to cycle with your damaged foot, the one
you just shot yourself in.

That's Doug 'Colander Foot' Bollen you're talking to.



Who now sinks when he tries to walk on water!

--
Moving things in still pictures!

Tony Dragon wrote:
Doug wrote:

Road congestion is primarily caused by too many cars and if left to
its own devices would be self-limiting. Indeed it could even result in
a reduction of car travel as motorists get fed up with so many delays
they are themselves responsible for. Unfortunately, our road spaces
are allowed to be demand driven resulting in perpetual roadbuilding
and widening and tinkering to the detriment of the environment and
quality of life of many people.


I hope you will still be able to cycle with your damaged foot, the one
you just shot yourself in.

That's one of the funniest things I've heard in years...

--
John Wright

"What would happen if you eliminated the autism genes from the gene pool?

You would have a bunch of people standing around in a cave, chatting and
socialising and not getting anything done!" - Professor Temple Grandin

In article c8cc6ed1-5611-4671-ba3a-
, Doug says...
On 16 Aug, 14:48, (Steve Firth) wrote:
John Rowland wrote:
http://www.abd.org.uk/pr/634.htm

I'm not sure who the Association of British Drivers are, so I'm not sure how
much to read into this.

It's hardly news. Anyone working in transport/telematics already knew
that Livingstone had issued an edict that the lights across London were
to be rephased to cause congestion prior to the introduction of the
congestion charge. In fact I stated this was what was happening here at
the time and had the usual cabal of ****wits and some who should have
known better screaming that it was a lie.

Road congestion is primarily caused by too many cars and if left to
its own devices would be self-limiting. Indeed it could even result in
a reduction of car travel as motorists get fed up with so many delays
they are themselves responsible for.

Until PT can step up to the plate, it'll never happen.

--
Conor

I only please one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow isn't
looking good either. - Scott Adams

Doug wrote:

Road congestion is primarily caused by too many cars and if left to
its own devices would be self-limiting.

The experience within Birmingham, when the entire traffic light system
failed, shows that if it were truly lef to its own devices that the
traffic woudl flow better than it does at present.

Indeed it could even result in
a reduction of car travel as motorists get fed up with so many delays
they are themselves responsible for.

Or, sicne the evidence is that traffic lights make things worse it coudl
simply result in traffic that flows even if slowly.

Unfortunately, our road spaces are allowed to be demand driven resulting
in perpetual roadbuilding and widening and tinkering to the detriment of
the environment and quality of life of many people.

London's street plan has remained effectively unchanged for at least 150
years. So you're talking utter ********, as usual.

Steve Firth wrote:
Doug wrote:

Road congestion is primarily caused by too many cars and if left to
its own devices would be self-limiting.

The experience within Birmingham, when the entire traffic light system
failed, shows that if it were truly lef to its own devices that the
traffic would flow better than it does at present.

Where "traffic" doesn't include pedestrians or cyclists...

John Rowland wrote:

Steve Firth wrote:
Doug wrote:

Road congestion is primarily caused by too many cars and if left to
its own devices would be self-limiting.

The experience within Birmingham, when the entire traffic light system
failed, shows that if it were truly lef to its own devices that the
traffic would flow better than it does at present.

Where "traffic" doesn't include pedestrians or cyclists...

And?

Doug wrote:
On 16 Aug, 14:48, (Steve Firth) wrote:
John Rowland wrote:
http://www.abd.org.uk/pr/634.htm
I'm not sure who the Association of British Drivers are, so I'm not sure how
much to read into this.
It's hardly news. Anyone working in transport/telematics already knew
that Livingstone had issued an edict that the lights across London were
to be rephased to cause congestion prior to the introduction of the
congestion charge. In fact I stated this was what was happening here at
the time and had the usual cabal of ****wits and some who should have
known better screaming that it was a lie.

Road congestion is primarily caused by too many cars and if left to
its own devices would be self-limiting. Indeed it could even result in
a reduction of car travel as motorists get fed up with so many delays
they are themselves responsible for. Unfortunately, our road spaces
are allowed to be demand driven resulting in perpetual roadbuilding
and widening and tinkering to the detriment of the environment and
quality of life of many people.

Whilst this is partly true it does not accept the fact that congestion
can be made artificially worse to a major degree using such measures as
traffic light phasing as has now been admitted and failure to build new
roads. This is where the tinkering has gone on for the last few years.

As Brimstone says, where are these roads that have been built inside the
M25? I haven't seen any.


--
John Wright

"What would happen if you eliminated the autism genes from the gene pool?

You would have a bunch of people standing around in a cave, chatting and
socialising and not getting anything done!" - Professor Temple Grandin

On Sat, 16 Aug 2008, John Rowland wrote:

http://www.abd.org.uk/pr/634.htm

I'm not sure who the Association of British Drivers are, so I'm not sure
how much to read into this.

They're a lunatic fringe speedophile pressure group. That doesn't mean
that what they say isn't true, of course.

But it isn't. If you like, you can read the press release they link to:

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/medi...ntre/8948.aspx

Or even - shock horror! - get in touch with your inner U Thant and read
the actual original document:

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloa...rt-2008-07.pdf

Which says (in its executive summary, which is as far as i got - the whole
thing is over 200 pages!):

"Previous annual impacts monitoring reports have noted a trend towards
increasing congestion and more variable network conditions in central and
inner London. Given effectively stable traffic levels, this is believed by
TfL to reflect a reduction to the effective capacity of the road network
for general traffic. These capacity reductions are a consequence of the
re-allocation of a proportion of the effective road space, together with a
sharp rise in the incidence and intensity of road works."

"The capacity reallocations included pedestrian, cyclist and bus priority
measures and several major urban realm improvement schemes all of which
have required either specific allocation of road space (eg bus lanes) or
junction capacity (eg pedestrian all green traffic signal phases). These
initiatives, while generating beneficial effects, have reduced road
capacity for general traffic and have increased congestion."

"Increased road works have primarily reflected an accelerated programme of
infrastructure replacement by the utility companies generally agreed to be
an urgent priority together with increased development and construction
work reflecting recent buoyant economic conditions."

So basically, (a) there are a hell of a lot more roadworks than before and
(b) road space is being reallocated away from cars and to buses, bikes,
and people. Thus, less traffic causes the same amount of congestion.

The ABD's complaint goes like this:

"This latest report on the London congestion charge demonstrates the
fundamental dishonesty of all road pricing proposals," said the ABD's
Nigel Humphries. "They claim that by paying even more money to use the
roads, drivers will benefit from lower congestion."

Which is cobblers. Nobody's ever claimed that the London congestion charge
was for the benefit of car drivers. It's there to help pedestrians,
cyclists and public transport users, at the expense of car drivers.

tom

--
Eat whip you steroid wall-bashing lug-head! -- The Laird