Doug wrote:

Road congestion is primarily caused by too many cars and if left to
its own devices would be self-limiting.

The experience within Birmingham, when the entire traffic light system
failed, shows that if it were truly lef to its own devices that the
traffic woudl flow better than it does at present.

Indeed it could even result in
a reduction of car travel as motorists get fed up with so many delays
they are themselves responsible for.

Or, sicne the evidence is that traffic lights make things worse it coudl
simply result in traffic that flows even if slowly.

Unfortunately, our road spaces are allowed to be demand driven resulting
in perpetual roadbuilding and widening and tinkering to the detriment of
the environment and quality of life of many people.

London's street plan has remained effectively unchanged for at least 150
years. So you're talking utter ********, as usual.

Steve Firth wrote:
Doug wrote:

Road congestion is primarily caused by too many cars and if left to
its own devices would be self-limiting.

The experience within Birmingham, when the entire traffic light system
failed, shows that if it were truly lef to its own devices that the
traffic would flow better than it does at present.

Where "traffic" doesn't include pedestrians or cyclists...

John Rowland wrote:

Steve Firth wrote:
Doug wrote:

Road congestion is primarily caused by too many cars and if left to
its own devices would be self-limiting.

The experience within Birmingham, when the entire traffic light system
failed, shows that if it were truly lef to its own devices that the
traffic would flow better than it does at present.

Where "traffic" doesn't include pedestrians or cyclists...

And?

Steve Firth wrote:
John Rowland wrote:

Steve Firth wrote:
Doug wrote:

Road congestion is primarily caused by too many cars and if left to
its own devices would be self-limiting.

The experience within Birmingham, when the entire traffic light
system failed, shows that if it were truly lef to its own devices
that the traffic would flow better than it does at present.

Where "traffic" doesn't include pedestrians or cyclists...

And?

You were implying traffic lights serve no useful purpose... if they enable
pedestrians to avoid getting run over, they serve a purpose, even if the
motor vehicles move better without them.

John Rowland wrote:

Steve Firth wrote:
John Rowland wrote:

Steve Firth wrote:
Doug wrote:

Road congestion is primarily caused by too many cars and if left to
its own devices would be self-limiting.

The experience within Birmingham, when the entire traffic light
system failed, shows that if it were truly lef to its own devices
that the traffic would flow better than it does at present.

Where "traffic" doesn't include pedestrians or cyclists...

And?

You were implying traffic lights serve no useful purpose...

No I wasn't. I was stating that without traffic lights the traffic flows
more smoothly than with. If you wish to infer from that that I am saying
that they perform no useful function then that is your inference, not my
implication.

if they enable pedestrians to avoid getting run over, they serve a
purpose, even if the motor vehicles move better without them.

You seem to be confused about the difference between traffic lights and
pedestrian crossings.

Steve Firth wrote:
John Rowland wrote:

Steve Firth wrote:
John Rowland wrote:

Steve Firth wrote:
Doug wrote:

Road congestion is primarily caused by too many cars and if left
to its own devices would be self-limiting.

The experience within Birmingham, when the entire traffic light
system failed, shows that if it were truly lef to its own devices
that the traffic would flow better than it does at present.

Where "traffic" doesn't include pedestrians or cyclists...

And?

You were implying traffic lights serve no useful purpose...

No I wasn't. I was stating that without traffic lights the traffic
flows more smoothly than with. If you wish to infer from that that I
am saying that they perform no useful function then that is your
inference, not my implication.

if they enable pedestrians to avoid getting run over, they serve a
purpose, even if the motor vehicles move better without them.

You seem to be confused about the difference between traffic lights
and pedestrian crossings.

If the traffic lights control road traffic at a pedestrian crossing, or if
there is a pedestrian crossing at a traffic light controlled road junction,
where is the confusion?

Steve Firth wrote:
John Rowland wrote:

Steve Firth wrote:
John Rowland wrote:

Steve Firth wrote:
Doug wrote:

Road congestion is primarily caused by too many cars and if left
to its own devices would be self-limiting.

The experience within Birmingham, when the entire traffic light
system failed, shows that if it were truly lef to its own devices
that the traffic would flow better than it does at present.

Where "traffic" doesn't include pedestrians or cyclists...

And?

You were implying traffic lights serve no useful purpose...

No I wasn't. I was stating that without traffic lights the traffic
flows more smoothly than with. If you wish to infer from that that I
am saying that they perform no useful function then that is your
inference, not my implication.

If your message had no implications, perhaps you should reply "And?" to your
own messages rather than mine.

Steve Firth wrote:
John Rowland wrote:

Steve Firth wrote:
John Rowland wrote:

Steve Firth wrote:
Doug wrote:

Road congestion is primarily caused by too many cars and if left
to its own devices would be self-limiting.

The experience within Birmingham, when the entire traffic light
system failed, shows that if it were truly lef to its own devices
that the traffic would flow better than it does at present.

Where "traffic" doesn't include pedestrians or cyclists...

And?

You were implying traffic lights serve no useful purpose...

No I wasn't.

But you actually went on to say ...

the evidence is that traffic lights make things worse

So, if they make things worse, what do you think their useful purpose is?

--
Richard J.
(to email me, swap 'uk' and 'yon' in address)

Richard J. wrote:
Steve Firth wrote:
John Rowland wrote:

Steve Firth wrote:
John Rowland wrote:

Steve Firth wrote:
Doug wrote:

Road congestion is primarily caused by too many cars and if left
to its own devices would be self-limiting.
The experience within Birmingham, when the entire traffic light
system failed, shows that if it were truly lef to its own devices
that the traffic would flow better than it does at present.
Where "traffic" doesn't include pedestrians or cyclists...
And?
You were implying traffic lights serve no useful purpose...
No I wasn't.

But you actually went on to say ...

the evidence is that traffic lights make things worse

So, if they make things worse, what do you think their useful purpose is?

To create congestion and pollution, thus providing a big stick to beat
the motorist with for his or her wicked ways. It's also a good excuse to
justify further taxation of the motorist because of the said pollution
and congestion they cause. It's nothing to do with the possibility that
someone involved with the planning side of things is in cahoots with
the people who make traffic lights.

--
Moving things in still pictures!

Richard J. wrote:

But you actually went on to say ...

the evidence is that traffic lights make things worse

So, if they make things worse, what do you think their useful purpose is?

Traffic lights can, if used sensibly, alleviate problems at some
interchanges and serve a useful function in ramp metering. They are not
a universal panacea but that is how they have been treated by the lazy
and incompetent.