Brimstone wrote:
Doug wrote:
On 16 Aug, 14:48, (Steve Firth) wrote:
John Rowland wrote:
http://www.abd.org.uk/pr/634.htm
I'm not sure who the Association of British Drivers are, so I'm not
sure how much to read into this.
It's hardly news. Anyone working in transport/telematics already knew
that Livingstone had issued an edict that the lights across London
were to be rephased to cause congestion prior to the introduction of
the congestion charge. In fact I stated this was what was happening
here at the time and had the usual cabal of ****wits and some who
should have known better screaming that it was a lie.
Road congestion is primarily caused by too many cars and if left to
its own devices would be self-limiting. Indeed it could even result in
a reduction of car travel as motorists get fed up with so many delays
they are themselves responsible for. Unfortunately, our road spaces
are allowed to be demand driven resulting in perpetual roadbuilding
and widening and tinkering to the detriment of the environment and
quality of life of many people.

What new roads have been built in London (inside the M25) over the last
(say) ten years Doug?

I can name one:

"University Way" (part of the A206), which is inside the M25, but which
is not in London. The new-build part (which is now about ten years old
anyway) is in Dartford, Kent.

I am not aware of any other significant highway building inside the M25
(whether inside or outside London) in the last 20 years, let alone 10.

There are plenty of examples of Livingstonian road sabotage, though.
Witness the (former) A40 (M) and the disgrace of the wrecking of the
(very useful) short stretch of M41 at Shepherd's Bush.

JNugent wrote:
Brimstone wrote:
Doug wrote:
On 16 Aug, 14:48, (Steve Firth) wrote:

What new roads have been built in London (inside the M25) over the
last (say) ten years Doug?

I can name one:

"University Way" (part of the A206), which is inside the M25, but
which is not in London. The new-build part (which is now about ten
years old anyway) is in Dartford, Kent.

I am not aware of any other significant highway building inside the
M25 (whether inside or outside London) in the last 20 years, let
alone 10.
There are plenty of examples of Livingstonian road sabotage, though.
Witness the (former) A40 (M)

Westway? Looks much the same as it always was, apart from the lack of
lighting.

and the disgrace of the wrecking of the (very useful) short stretch of M41
at Shepherd's Bush.

In what sense has it been wrecked?

--
Richard J.
(to email me, swap 'uk' and 'yon' in address)

JNugent wrote:
Brimstone wrote:

What new roads have been built in London (inside the M25) over the
last (say) ten years Doug?

I can name one:

"University Way" (part of the A206), which is inside the M25, but
which is not in London. The new-build part (which is now about ten
years old anyway) is in Dartford, Kent.

I am not aware of any other significant highway building inside the
M25 (whether inside or outside London) in the last 20 years, let
alone 10.

The A12 from the Lea to Redbridge opened in 1999.
The A13 from Dagenham to the M25 opened in 1998-99.
Waltham Abbey southern bypass opened in 2000
Orient Way in Leyton opened in 2001
Coulsdon relief road opened more recently
I think the A40 is currently being grade-separated through Acton

There are plenty of examples of Livingstonian road sabotage, though.
Witness the (former) A40 (M) and the disgrace of the wrecking of the
(very useful) short stretch of M41 at Shepherd's Bush.

Although they have been reclassified as 'A' roads, both are just as useful
as they ever were.

Doug wrote:

Road congestion is primarily caused by too many cars and if left to
its own devices would be self-limiting.

The experience within Birmingham, when the entire traffic light system
failed, shows that if it were truly lef to its own devices that the
traffic woudl flow better than it does at present.

Indeed it could even result in
a reduction of car travel as motorists get fed up with so many delays
they are themselves responsible for.

Or, sicne the evidence is that traffic lights make things worse it coudl
simply result in traffic that flows even if slowly.

Unfortunately, our road spaces are allowed to be demand driven resulting
in perpetual roadbuilding and widening and tinkering to the detriment of
the environment and quality of life of many people.

London's street plan has remained effectively unchanged for at least 150
years. So you're talking utter ********, as usual.

Richard J. wrote:

JNugent wrote:
Brimstone wrote:
Doug wrote:
(Steve Firth) wrote:

What new roads have been built in London (inside the M25) over the
last (say) ten years Doug?

I can name one:
"University Way" (part of the A206), which is inside the M25, but
which is not in London. The new-build part (which is now about ten
years old anyway) is in Dartford, Kent.
I am not aware of any other significant highway building inside the
M25 (whether inside or outside London) in the last 20 years, let
alone 10.
There are plenty of examples of Livingstonian road sabotage, though.
Witness the (former) A40 (M)

Westway? Looks much the same as it always was, apart from the lack of
lighting.

No longer subject to proper motorway regulations (purely in order to
bring it under Livingstone's control).

and the disgrace of the wrecking of the (very useful) short stretch of M41
at Shepherd's Bush.

In what sense has it been wrecked?

It was (part of) a motorway, six lanes and two hard shoulders.

Look at it now.

John Rowland wrote:

JNugent wrote:
Brimstone wrote:

What new roads have been built in London (inside the M25) over the
last (say) ten years Doug?

I can name one:
"University Way" (part of the A206), which is inside the M25, but
which is not in London. The new-build part (which is now about ten
years old anyway) is in Dartford, Kent.
I am not aware of any other significant highway building inside the
M25 (whether inside or outside London) in the last 20 years, let
alone 10.

The A12 from the Lea to Redbridge opened in 1999.
The A13 from Dagenham to the M25 opened in 1998-99.
Waltham Abbey southern bypass opened in 2000
Orient Way in Leyton opened in 2001
Coulsdon relief road opened more recently
I think the A40 is currently being grade-separated through Acton

I accept that I forgot the A12 and A13 improvements, but they were all
planned before Blair and Mad Ken's time.

"Orient Way" - wossat?

If it hasn't got a number, it's not likely to be an important highway,
is it?

The only one I can find is:

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Orient+Way&sll=53.800651 ,-4.064941&sspn=9.806345,19.775391&ie=UTF8&z=15&iwlo c=addr

That doesn't look like a significant addition to London's highway
infrastructure to me.

The "A"23 Coulsdon bypass is a typical example of the "modern" anti-car
thinking of highway engineers in the pay of local authorities: single
carriageway (unbelievable!) and with a significant part of the width
conned-off for use only by buses (an admission of failure before it was
even opened).

There are plenty of examples of Livingstonian road sabotage, though.
Witness the (former) A40 (M) and the disgrace of the wrecking of the
(very useful) short stretch of M41 at Shepherd's Bush.

Although they have been reclassified as 'A' roads, both are just as useful
as they ever were.

Have you *seen* the former M41 recently?

JNugent wrote:
Richard J. wrote:

JNugent wrote:
Brimstone wrote:
Doug wrote:
(Steve Firth) wrote:

What new roads have been built in London (inside the M25) over the
last (say) ten years Doug?

I can name one:
"University Way" (part of the A206), which is inside the M25, but
which is not in London. The new-build part (which is now about ten
years old anyway) is in Dartford, Kent.
I am not aware of any other significant highway building inside the
M25 (whether inside or outside London) in the last 20 years, let
alone 10.
There are plenty of examples of Livingstonian road sabotage, though.
Witness the (former) A40 (M)

Westway? Looks much the same as it always was, apart from the lack
of lighting.

No longer subject to proper motorway regulations (purely in order to
bring it under Livingstone's control).

and the disgrace of the wrecking of the (very useful) short stretch
of M41 at Shepherd's Bush.

In what sense has it been wrecked?

It was (part of) a motorway, six lanes and two hard shoulders.

A motorway that went no where near any other and was a reminder of an
attempt to over ride the wishes of the population. The former A41(M) from
the Westway to Shepherd's Bush roundabout is, at most, threequarters of a
mile long.

Look at it now.

Redesignated to allow more people to use it and to gain greater benefit.

Brimstone wrote:

JNugent wrote:
Richard J. wrote:
JNugent wrote:
Brimstone wrote:
Doug wrote:
(Steve Firth) wrote:

What new roads have been built in London (inside the M25) over the
last (say) ten years Doug?

I can name one:
"University Way" (part of the A206), which is inside the M25, but
which is not in London. The new-build part (which is now about ten
years old anyway) is in Dartford, Kent.
I am not aware of any other significant highway building inside the
M25 (whether inside or outside London) in the last 20 years, let
alone 10.
There are plenty of examples of Livingstonian road sabotage, though.
Witness the (former) A40 (M)

Westway? Looks much the same as it always was, apart from the lack
of lighting.

No longer subject to proper motorway regulations (purely in order to
bring it under Livingstone's control).

and the disgrace of the wrecking of the (very useful) short stretch
of M41 at Shepherd's Bush.

In what sense has it been wrecked?

It was (part of) a motorway, six lanes and two hard shoulders.

A motorway that went no where near any other

....apart from the A40(M), you mean? It was also meant to connect with
what is now numbered M1, some miles to the north. And it was meant to
cross the Thames at Wandsworth.

and was a reminder of an
attempt to over ride the wishes of the population. The former A41(M) from
the Westway to Shepherd's Bush roundabout is, at most, threequarters of a
mile long.

Look at it now.

Redesignated to allow more people to use it and to gain greater benefit.

Gawd - you sound just like Doug. You only left out the word(?): "Hitlerian".

JNugent wrote:
Brimstone wrote:

JNugent wrote:
Richard J. wrote:
JNugent wrote:
Brimstone wrote:
Doug wrote:
(Steve Firth) wrote:

What new roads have been built in London (inside the M25) over
the last (say) ten years Doug?

I can name one:
"University Way" (part of the A206), which is inside the M25, but
which is not in London. The new-build part (which is now about ten
years old anyway) is in Dartford, Kent.
I am not aware of any other significant highway building inside
the M25 (whether inside or outside London) in the last 20 years,
let alone 10.
There are plenty of examples of Livingstonian road sabotage,
though. Witness the (former) A40 (M)

Westway? Looks much the same as it always was, apart from the lack
of lighting.

No longer subject to proper motorway regulations (purely in order to
bring it under Livingstone's control).

and the disgrace of the wrecking of the (very useful) short
stretch of M41 at Shepherd's Bush.

In what sense has it been wrecked?

It was (part of) a motorway, six lanes and two hard shoulders.

A motorway that went no where near any other

...apart from the A40(M), you mean?

Although I didn't say so, I was referring to both of those roads.

It was also meant to connect with
what is now numbered M1, some miles to the north. And it was meant to
cross the Thames at Wandsworth.

Indeed. The population told the planners what to do with that scheme.

and was a reminder of an
attempt to over ride the wishes of the population. The former A41(M)
from the Westway to Shepherd's Bush roundabout is, at most,
threequarters of a mile long.

Look at it now.

Redesignated to allow more people to use it and to gain greater
benefit.

Gawd - you sound just like Doug. You only left out the word(?):
"Hitlerian".

Strange, I'd always got the impression that you were in favour of more
people being allowed to travel easily by road between various points in
London? Maybe I've misunderstood.

JNugent wrote:
John Rowland wrote:

JNugent wrote:
Brimstone wrote:

What new roads have been built in London (inside the M25) over the
last (say) ten years Doug?

I can name one:
"University Way" (part of the A206), which is inside the M25, but
which is not in London. The new-build part (which is now about ten
years old anyway) is in Dartford, Kent.
I am not aware of any other significant highway building inside the
M25 (whether inside or outside London) in the last 20 years, let
alone 10.

The A12 from the Lea to Redbridge opened in 1999.
The A13 from Dagenham to the M25 opened in 1998-99.
Waltham Abbey southern bypass opened in 2000
Orient Way in Leyton opened in 2001
Coulsdon relief road opened more recently
I think the A40 is currently being grade-separated through Acton

I accept that I forgot the A12 and A13 improvements, but they were all
planned before Blair and Mad Ken's time.

"Orient Way" - wossat?

If it hasn't got a number, it's not likely to be an important highway,
is it?

The only one I can find is:

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Orient+Way&sll=53.800651 ,-4.064941&sspn=9.806345,19.775391&ie=UTF8&z=15&iwlo c=addr

That doesn't look like a significant addition to London's highway
infrastructure to me.

It's to carry lorries between the industrial estate at the north end and the
A12, and so other traffic will find Church Rd and Oliver Rd quieter since it
was built.

The "A"23 Coulsdon bypass is a typical example of the "modern"
anti-car thinking of highway engineers in the pay of local
authorities: single carriageway (unbelievable!) and with a
significant part of the width conned-off for use only by buses (an
admission of failure before it was even opened).

There are no local buses on the bypass. I've never used the road, but I
would imagine the major beneficiaries of the "bus lane" would be taxis from
Gatwick to London. Looking at
http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?v=...cl=1&encType=1
it seems as if there is room at the northern end to create a flat junction
which wouldn't clog.

There are plenty of examples of Livingstonian road sabotage, though.
Witness the (former) A40 (M) and the disgrace of the wrecking of the
(very useful) short stretch of M41 at Shepherd's Bush.

Although they have been reclassified as 'A' roads, both are just as
useful as they ever were.

Have you *seen* the former M41 recently?

Yes, several times a week for the last three years. In what way did it used
to be better?