On Sun, 07 Sep 2008 22:26:26 +0100 someone who may be Graham Murray
wrote this:-

On the other hand, where a tram is running along a road, is there any
need for it to have separate signals? Would it not suffice for it to
have to obey the same red/amber/green traffic lights as other traffic?

Yes, which is why separate signals are provided.

There are many reasons why tram drivers may be given separate
signals, for example if a tram is to start off before other traffic
at a junction a separate signal is needed. The "amber" period for a
tram is a few seconds longer than for motor traffic. It is also
considered less confusing for operators of other forms of traffic.

Having decided to provide separate signals for tram drivers the next
question was what form these signals would take. The two contenders
were tram stencils on coloured lights (just as there are bike (and
possibly bus [1]) stencils in places) or white lights. In essence
the white light system was chosen as there is less chance of
confusion with signals for other forms of traffic.

White light signals could be provided by standard traffic light
units with clear lenses and the appropriate stencil. However, the
"searchlight" unit was chosen as it is smaller than a three light
traffic light unit (being fitted to the top of a pedestrian crossing
pole is a lot neater than having a second traffic light unit beside
the one for other traffic) and can provide a greater variety of
indications.

Given the limitations of operating on the roads I think the system
would be hard to improve on.



[1] I have a very vague recollection of having seen bus stencils
somewhere in the UK. Bike stencils are provided in places though,
unlike some other places, there is no stencil on the red lens.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

On Mon, 08 Sep 2008 12:01:01 +0100, David Hansen wrote:

[1] I have a very vague recollection of having seen bus stencils
somewhere in the UK. Bike stencils are provided in places though, unlike
some other places, there is no stencil on the red lens.

Bus stencils are used in several places in Birmingham.

--
Regards
Alex

http://www.badphorm.co.uk/

David Hansen wrote:
On Sun, 07 Sep 2008 22:26:26 +0100 someone who may be Graham Murray
wrote this:-

On the other hand, where a tram is running along a road, is there any
need for it to have separate signals? Would it not suffice for it to
have to obey the same red/amber/green traffic lights as other traffic?

Yes, which is why separate signals are provided.

There are many reasons why tram drivers may be given separate
signals, for example if a tram is to start off before other traffic
at a junction a separate signal is needed. The "amber" period for a
tram is a few seconds longer than for motor traffic. It is also
considered less confusing for operators of other forms of traffic.

Having decided to provide separate signals for tram drivers the next
question was what form these signals would take. The two contenders
were tram stencils on coloured lights (just as there are bike (and
possibly bus [1]) stencils in places) or white lights. In essence
the white light system was chosen as there is less chance of
confusion with signals for other forms of traffic.

White light signals could be provided by standard traffic light
units with clear lenses and the appropriate stencil. However, the
"searchlight" unit was chosen as it is smaller than a three light
traffic light unit (being fitted to the top of a pedestrian crossing
pole is a lot neater than having a second traffic light unit beside
the one for other traffic) and can provide a greater variety of
indications.

Given the limitations of operating on the roads I think the system
would be hard to improve on.



[1] I have a very vague recollection of having seen bus stencils
somewhere in the UK. Bike stencils are provided in places though,
unlike some other places, there is no stencil on the red lens.



I seem to remember the last time I was in Amsterdam there were cycle,
bus & tram stencils on traffic lights.

--
Tony the Dragon

The media are reporting that the driver of the bus has been arrested.

"Chris" wrote in message
...
The media are reporting that the driver of the bus has been arrested.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7603444.stm

It is also reported that the fatality was a bus passenger, and not a
pedestrian as initial information suggested.

Peter

On 8 Sep, 18:54, "Peter Masson" wrote:
"Chris" wrote in message

...

The media are reporting that the driver of the bus has been arrested.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7603444.stm

It is also reported that the fatality was a bus passenger, and not a
pedestrian as initial information suggested.

Peter

I thought initial reports mentioned 'blood everywhere'?.....only
inside the bus then, and likely not even there.

Chris gurgled happily, sounding much like
they were saying:

It is also reported that the fatality was a bus passenger, and not a
pedestrian as initial information suggested.

I thought initial reports mentioned 'blood everywhere'?.....only inside
the bus then, and likely not even there.

Depends how he left the bus. The doesn't appear to be much of the upper
front window remaining.

On 9 Sep, 11:41, Adrian wrote:
Depends how he left the bus. The doesn't appear to be much of the upper
front window remaining.

Well the bus did have an argument with a tram and lost. Given how
mangled the front of the bus is I'd guess the windows just shattered
and fell out on impact. The tram seems fairly intact in the pictures.
Apart from it having derailed you'd never know it had been in an
accident. Must be built a lot stronger than the bus.

B2003

Chris wrote:
On 8 Sep, 18:54, "Peter Masson" wrote:
"Chris" wrote in message

...

The media are reporting that the driver of the bus has been arrested.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7603444.stm

It is also reported that the fatality was a bus passenger, and not a
pedestrian as initial information suggested.

Peter

I thought initial reports mentioned 'blood everywhere'?.....only
inside the bus then, and likely not even there.

The reports I have read suggest the passenger had been upstairs, and was
ejected from the bus during (part of) the accident. This would make
sense of the confusion as to whether he had been a passenger or a
pedestrian.

Robin

[1] I have a very vague recollection of having seen bus stencils
somewhere in the UK. Bike stencils are provided in places though,
unlike some other places, there is no stencil on the red lens.

Birmingham, at the junction of Longmore Street and Belgrave Middleway.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=e...2,0.01001&z=17

Buses and Bikes can go straight on from Longmore Street into Horton
Square, cars can only go left. There's both a bus stencil and a bike
stencil, and bizarrely they have separate lanes.

The layout is hideous, as the dedicated bike lane to cross the
Middleway heading north is in the middle of the road and the bike lane
runs along a widened pavement to the west (where you'd expect it) and
then crosses into the middle of Longmore Street unprotected (where you
sort of expect it). But coming from Horton Square you end up again in
in the centre of the road and are expected to move right, into the bi-
directional bike lane, unprotected. So you have massive traffic light
protection for a move across Belgrave Middleway, but fifteen yards the
other side you have to make a weird, unprotected move which drivers
won't be expecting: from the perspective of a driver heading north,
they'll confront oncoming bikes heading south in the middle of the
road crossing to the western side of the road.

This is part of National Cycle Route 5, and is the recommended route
to cycle from the South West of the city into Birmingham (along Gooch
Street) and is also a useful route towards the Grand Union at Camp
Hill locks (cycling on belgrave Middleway is hard work when you can
cut diagonally across). I just get in the bus lane and behave like a
bus...

ian