According to the latest TfL board minutes, extending PAYG from Hayes &
Harlington to Heathrow Terminals is being studied.

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloa...ember-2008.pdf
page 15

On 7 Nov, 17:08, Matthew Dickinson
wrote:
According to the latest TfL board minutes, extending PAYG from Hayes &
Harlington to Heathrow Terminals is being studied.

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloa...report-novembe...
page 15


Interesting.

"Implementation and launch remains possible by March 2009" they say -
well don't hold your breath, there've been numerous false starts when
it comes to getting the agreement of the TOCs with regards to
accepting Oyster PAYG on rail routes in London, though it seems
they've finally come around to the inevitability of it (indeed a
number now accept PAYG on some routes).

If it were to be accepted on Heathrow Connect, it would be something
of a struggle to ensure that passengers understood it could not be
used on the faster Heathrow Express service!

But in terms of local journeys it would certainly make sense, as
Oyster PAYG can now be used on all FGW services within Greater London
apart from trains to Heathrow.

On Fri, 7 Nov 2008 09:08:15 -0800 (PST), Matthew Dickinson
wrote:

According to the latest TfL board minutes, extending PAYG from Hayes &
Harlington to Heathrow Terminals is being studied.

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloa...ember-2008.pdf
page 15

It is scheduled for introduction next year - obviously subject to final
agreement with BAA (as per report). I've seen info saying that it
should have been introduced by now!

--
Paul C

"Paul Corfield" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 7 Nov 2008 09:08:15 -0800 (PST), Matthew Dickinson
wrote:

According to the latest TfL board minutes, extending PAYG from Hayes &
Harlington to Heathrow Terminals is being studied.

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloa...ember-2008.pdf
page 15

It is scheduled for introduction next year - obviously subject to final
agreement with BAA (as per report). I've seen info saying that it
should have been introduced by now!


Another 'special zone' like Watford Junction then? Or could they bring
the route into zone 6...

Paul S

On Fri, 7 Nov 2008 20:08:01 -0000, "Paul Scott"
wrote:


"Paul Corfield" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 7 Nov 2008 09:08:15 -0800 (PST), Matthew Dickinson
wrote:

According to the latest TfL board minutes, extending PAYG from Hayes &
Harlington to Heathrow Terminals is being studied.

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloa...ember-2008.pdf
page 15

It is scheduled for introduction next year - obviously subject to final
agreement with BAA (as per report). I've seen info saying that it
should have been introduced by now!


Another 'special zone' like Watford Junction then? Or could they bring
the route into zone 6...

I've no idea how it will work conceptually. I would expect it to be
charged at a premium rate and also for there to be a "premium" penalty
in case people fail to validate on entry at Heathrow. Where it get's fun
is how you deal with travel to Terminal 5 where only HEX offers the
service.

--
Paul C

"Paul Corfield" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 7 Nov 2008 20:08:01 -0000, "Paul Scott"
wrote:


"Paul Corfield" wrote in message
. ..
On Fri, 7 Nov 2008 09:08:15 -0800 (PST), Matthew Dickinson
wrote:

According to the latest TfL board minutes, extending PAYG from Hayes &
Harlington to Heathrow Terminals is being studied.

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloa...ember-2008.pdf
page 15

It is scheduled for introduction next year - obviously subject to final
agreement with BAA (as per report). I've seen info saying that it
should have been introduced by now!


Another 'special zone' like Watford Junction then? Or could they bring
the route into zone 6...

I've no idea how it will work conceptually. I would expect it to be
charged at a premium rate and also for there to be a "premium" penalty
in case people fail to validate on entry at Heathrow. Where it get's fun
is how you deal with travel to Terminal 5 where only HEX offers the
service.

But inter-terminal journeys are free.

On Sat, 8 Nov 2008 00:55:24 -0000, "John Salmon"
wrote:

"Paul Corfield" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 7 Nov 2008 20:08:01 -0000, "Paul Scott"
wrote:


"Paul Corfield" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 7 Nov 2008 09:08:15 -0800 (PST), Matthew Dickinson
wrote:

According to the latest TfL board minutes, extending PAYG from Hayes &
Harlington to Heathrow Terminals is being studied.

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloa...ember-2008.pdf
page 15

It is scheduled for introduction next year - obviously subject to final
agreement with BAA (as per report). I've seen info saying that it
should have been introduced by now!


Another 'special zone' like Watford Junction then? Or could they bring
the route into zone 6...

I've no idea how it will work conceptually. I would expect it to be
charged at a premium rate and also for there to be a "premium" penalty
in case people fail to validate on entry at Heathrow. Where it get's fun
is how you deal with travel to Terminal 5 where only HEX offers the
service.

But inter-terminal journeys are free.

I appreciate that is true for HEX / Connect but it isn't for LU. There
are clear implications about explaining the nuances of PAYG validity and
also ensuring validation equipment is properly located with the right
publicity. Employees of the airport will, I am sure, get used to this
quickly. However irregular travellers and tourists may struggle and
thus it is important to get the details of who does what and how
correct. I assume this will be part of the agreement under
consideration.

Am I correct in assuming that HEX and Heathrow Connect fares are
different but that there is still an effective premium for the Hayes to
Heathrow section on Connect services?

I know that it was not an easy task getting LU's ticketing sorted out
for the T5 station where BAA run the station. This just adds to the
complexity and there will be implications for BAA's own operation.
--
Paul C

Paul Corfield wrote:

Am I correct in assuming that HEX and Heathrow Connect fares are
different but that there is still an effective premium for the Hayes to
Heathrow section on Connect services?


Yup. Cash fares are presently as follows:

Heathrow Express Standard Single: £16.50
Heathrow Express 1st Class Single: £26.00
Heathrow Express Standard Return: £32.00
Heathrow Express 1st Class Return: £50.00

Tickets can be purchased on board for a £3.00 supplement in Standard,
but for the normal price in 1st.

Heathrow Connect Standard Single: £ 6.90
Heathrow Connect Standard Return: £13.80

NB: Penalty Fares apply between Paddington and Hayes & Harlington, and
the Heathrow Connect website alleges that Oyster PAYG is *not* valid on
Heathrow Connect at all!

Paddington - Hayes & Harlington fares:

Anytime 1st Day Single: £ 6.10
Anytime 1st Day Return: £12.20
Anytime Day Single: £ 4.10
Anytime Day Return: £ 7.50
Off-Peak Day Return: £ 5.00
Oyster Peak Single: £ 3.50
Oyster Off-Peak Single: £ 2.00

Hayes & Harlington - Heathrow:

Anytime Day Single: £ 4.90
Anytime Return: £ 9.80

Cheers,

Barry

On Nov 8, 2:19*pm, Barry Salter wrote:
Paul Corfield wrote:
Am I correct in assuming that HEX and Heathrow Connect fares are
different but that there is still an effective premium for the Hayes to
Heathrow section on Connect services?

Yup. Cash fares are presently as follows:

* Heathrow Express Standard Single: £16.50
Heathrow Express 1st Class Single: £26.00
* Heathrow Express Standard Return: £32.00
Heathrow Express 1st Class Return: £50.00

Tickets can be purchased on board for a £3.00 supplement in Standard,
but for the normal price in 1st.

Heathrow Connect Standard Single: £ 6.90
Heathrow Connect Standard Return: £13.80

NB: Penalty Fares apply between Paddington and Hayes & Harlington, and
the Heathrow Connect website alleges that Oyster PAYG is *not* valid on
Heathrow Connect at all!


Is that just an out of date website? The Oystercard website shows
Oyster as valid from West Drayton - Paddington and the Hayes -
Paddington section of the Heathrow Connect is operated on behalf of
First Great Western and is part of the Paddington suburban service
pattern.

On 8 Nov, 09:34, Andy wrote:
Is that just an out of date website?

Yes. The press office definitely thinks they accept PAYG.

the Hayes -
Paddington section of the Heathrow Connect is operated on behalf of
First Great Western

Almost. The trains and the staff (which are owned/employed by
Heathrow Express) are sublet to First Great Western for that part of
the journey.

U