On Dec 8, 1:33*pm, Mr Thant
wrote:
On 8 Dec, 11:47, Tom Anderson wrote:

It would be less good for the people of the part of east London that many
Londoners erroneously refer to as Essex, of course.

There's nothing erroneous about the River Lea.

It's a previous administrative boundary, but has no more meaning or
significance than the current one.

In message
, at
05:30:59 on Mon, 8 Dec 2008, MIG remarked:

Brentwood is the first station in Essex on that line, as I recall.

Within the current administrative county of Essex, yes.

There have only ever been administrative boundaries.

There are postal boundaries too.

Ah true, and there are telephone codes,

Which rarely have published boundaries.

but they are there purely for operational convenience of service
providers and also change. They are based on things like the number of
delivery points and capacity of exchanges.

And whose relevance to this conversation is a little obscure.

Town Hall, 128-142 High Road, Ilford, Essex, IG1 1DD

Yes, but it's still the address of the London Borough of Redbridge.

Which is in Essex.

I don't think the Royal Mail includes county names in addresses any
more. They use Post Towns (which every village has, and don't imply
that the village is actually in that town). A postal address is
structured data about delivery points, not a description of where a
place really is.

It's true that Post-towns for an address may not be in the same county
as the address - for example, some villages in Bucks have "Henley"
(Oxon) as the post town, but the village is still in Bucks.

There is a strange situation in Surrey I think in that some of their
administrative offices are not in the region that they administer (ie
Kingston).

Some of Surrey's County Council offices are in the Borough Of Kingston,
an area they no longer administer.
--
Roland Perry

On Dec 8, 2:49*pm, Roland Perry wrote:
In message
, at
05:30:59 on Mon, 8 Dec 2008, MIG remarked:

Brentwood is the first station in Essex on that line, as I recall.

Within the current administrative county of Essex, yes.

There have only ever been administrative boundaries.

There are postal boundaries too.

Ah true, and there are telephone codes,

Which rarely have published boundaries.

but they are there purely for operational convenience of service
providers and also change. *They are based on things like the number of
delivery points and capacity of exchanges.

And whose relevance to this conversation is a little obscure.

Town Hall, 128-142 High Road, Ilford, Essex, IG1 1DD

Yes, but it's still the address of the London Borough of Redbridge.

Which is in Essex.

It may have been in a previous "administrative county of Essex", but
that never had any more significance than the current one.

It also isn't really the reason why "Essex" is/was in the postal
address. The Post Office/Royal Mail has its own system for
classifying addresses which are based on its operations and not on
past or present administrative boundaries.

In message
, at
07:26:10 on Mon, 8 Dec 2008, MIG remarked:
Yes, but it's still the address of the London Borough of Redbridge.

Which is in Essex.

It may have been in a previous "administrative county of Essex", but
that never had any more significance than the current one.

So you claim there's no significance to administrative boundaries
either?

It also isn't really the reason why "Essex" is/was in the postal
address. The Post Office/Royal Mail has its own system for
classifying addresses which are based on its operations and not on
past or present administrative boundaries.

So what is the rational basis for claiming that Brentwood is the first
railway station in Essex? If neither administrative nor postal
boundaries make any sense?
--
Roland Perry

On Dec 8, 3:46*pm, Roland Perry wrote:
In message
, at
07:26:10 on Mon, 8 Dec 2008, MIG remarked:

Yes, but it's still the address of the London Borough of Redbridge.

Which is in Essex.

It may have been in a previous "administrative county of Essex", but
that never had any more significance than the current one.

So you claim there's no significance to administrative boundaries
either?

Er, no. There's significance to all these things or they wouldn't
exist.


It also isn't really the reason why "Essex" is/was in the postal
address. *The Post Office/Royal Mail has its own system for
classifying addresses which are based on its operations and not on
past or present administrative boundaries.

So what is the rational basis for claiming that Brentwood is the first
railway station in Essex? If neither administrative nor postal
boundaries make any sense?

I don't think I did say that administrative boundaries don't make any
sense, I just said that previous ones were no more significant than
current ones. The current one has the extra significance of being
current of course.

Maybe it's one of those self-definition things that they have on equal
opportunities questionnaires. People in Ilford feel themselves to be
Essex people and face the same prejudices and barriers in life as
Essex people. Or something like that.

On Mon, 8 Dec 2008, MIG wrote:

On Dec 8, 11:47*am, Tom Anderson wrote:
On Sun, 7 Dec 2008, Mr Thant wrote:
That said, I've decided all Crossrail trains will terminate at
Stratford. The people of Essex can go to their rooms and think about
what they've done.

Actually, that would probably suit the people of Essex quite well, since
almost all of them live beyond Shenfield, and thus have to change to get
onto Crossrail anyway - having it start at Stratford means they'll be more
likely to get a seat.

It would be less good for the people of the part of east London that many
Londoners erroneously refer to as Essex, of course.

Brentwood is the first station in Essex on that line, as I recall.

Correct. And as the only station in Essex which wouldn't have fast trains
to Stratford [1], they would be particularly hard done by.

tom

[1] This is probably not true.

--
Taking care of business

On Mon, 8 Dec 2008, Roland Perry wrote:

In message
, at
04:44:26 on Mon, 8 Dec 2008, MIG remarked:
It would be less good for the people of the part of east London that
many
Londoners erroneously refer to as Essex, of course.

Brentwood is the first station in Essex on that line, as I recall.

Within the current administrative county of Essex, yes.

There have only ever been administrative boundaries.

There are postal boundaries too.

I've never understood why past administrative boundaries are deemed to have
more significance than current ones and somehow represent eg the "real"
Essex.

Because many people grew up when (eg) Ilford was fully "in Essex", and
continue to refer to it as Essex because of its postal address. The borough
council, for example, publish the address of:

Town Hall, 128-142 High Road, Ilford, Essex, IG1 1DD

It would be equally correct to write:

Town Hall, 128-142 High Road, Ilford, Outer Mongolia, IG1 1DD

Since the Royal Mail no longer use counties.

tom

--
Taking care of business

On Mon, 8 Dec 2008, Mr Thant wrote:

On 8 Dec, 11:47, Tom Anderson wrote:
It would be less good for the people of the part of east London that many
Londoners erroneously refer to as Essex, of course.

There's nothing erroneous about the River Lea.

You've evidently never been there - there are a great many outstandingly
erroneous things about it! The algal scum covering the section between the
waterworks and the Hertford canal junction in the summer, for starters.

tom

--
Taking care of business

In article , (Roland
Perry) wrote:

Some of Surrey's County Council offices are in the Borough Of
Kingston, an area they no longer administer.

The Royal Borough of Kingston, please!

--
Colin Rosenstiel

In message , at
16:03:04 on Mon, 8 Dec 2008, Tom Anderson
remarked:
Town Hall, 128-142 High Road, Ilford, Essex, IG1 1DD

It would be equally correct to write:

Town Hall, 128-142 High Road, Ilford, Outer Mongolia, IG1 1DD

No, because it makes no sense.
--
Roland Perry