If Boris's removal of these projects due to 'no identified funding' causes
the government to step in with funds, does that mean his tactics have
worked?

http://www.building.co.uk/story.asp?...de=3128522&c=0

"Joe Montgomery, director general of regions and communities at the
communities department, said that Blears and Johnson had met this week and
agreed on the need for both the projects and were working together on a way
to fund them. He said: "We all have an interest in the development of East
London and beyond, and both the mayor and TfL are alive to the nature of
opportunities on the schemes. But we can't promise anything at this time."

Paul S

On 26 Nov, 21:41, "Paul Scott" wrote:
If Boris's removal of these projects due to 'no identified funding' causes
the government to step in with funds, does that mean his tactics have
worked?

It's not a tactic, as far as I can tell. The T&WA rules (or possibly
TfL's own rules about making T&WAs, not sure) require you to have an
identifiable source of funding before you waste everyone's time with a
public enquiry. The timing of the postponent (just before they were
meant to submit it) says they simply couldn't find any.

U

Mr Thant wrote:
On 26 Nov, 21:41, "Paul Scott" wrote:
If Boris's removal of these projects due to 'no identified funding'
causes the government to step in with funds, does that mean his
tactics have worked?

It's not a tactic, as far as I can tell. The T&WA rules (or possibly
TfL's own rules about making T&WAs, not sure) require you to have an
identifiable source of funding before you waste everyone's time with a
public enquiry. The timing of the postponent (just before they were
meant to submit it) says they simply couldn't find any.

I suppose then his only 'tactical' step may have been to raise the public
profile of the projects, in which case he was successful.

Amazing how many posters here and elsewhere appeared (to me anyway) to see
it purely as a 'Boris doesn't like the area' issue...

Paul

On Nov 26, 9:41 pm, "Paul Scott"
wrote:
"Joe Montgomery, director general of regions and communities at the
communities department, said that Blears and Johnson had met this week and
agreed on the need for both the projects and were working together on a way
to fund them. He said: "We all have an interest in the development of East
London and beyond, and both the mayor and TfL are alive to the nature of
opportunities on the schemes. But we can't promise anything at this time."

Don't expect the gateway bridge to be resurrected. If that ever got
built the government would lose a load of money in road tolls from the
dartford crossing. Unless of course they made the new bridge a toll as
well which I wouldn't put past them.

B2003

Boltar wrote:
On Nov 26, 9:41 pm, "Paul Scott"
wrote:
"Joe Montgomery, director general of regions and communities at the
communities department, said that Blears and Johnson had met this week and
agreed on the need for both the projects and were working together on a way
to fund them. He said: "We all have an interest in the development of East
London and beyond, and both the mayor and TfL are alive to the nature of
opportunities on the schemes. But we can't promise anything at this time."

Don't expect the gateway bridge to be resurrected. If that ever got
built the government would lose a load of money in road tolls from the
dartford crossing. Unless of course they made the new bridge a toll as
well which I wouldn't put past them.

B2003


It was going to be a toll bridge with discounts for local residents,
specifically to deter people from dodging Dartford.

Tom

On Nov 27, 4:35 pm, Tom Barry wrote:
It was going to be a toll bridge with discounts for local residents,
specifically to deter people from dodging Dartford.

Figures. I don't know why they just don't reinstall turnpikes
everywhere and be done with it.

B2003

On Thu, 27 Nov 2008, Boltar wrote:

On Nov 27, 4:35 pm, Tom Barry wrote:

It was going to be a toll bridge with discounts for local residents,
specifically to deter people from dodging Dartford.

Figures. I don't know why they just don't reinstall turnpikes everywhere
and be done with it.

They're pretty much planning to! The government are always murmuring about
nation-wide road pricing schemes. It's only a matter of time before they
start implementing them.

tom

--
Any problem in computer science can be solved with another layer of
indirection. -- David Wheeler

"Tom Anderson" wrote :
They're pretty much planning to! The government are always murmuring about
nation-wide road pricing schemes. It's only a matter of time before they
start implementing them.

At the moment, it's all down to Manchester, where they vote in December on a
congestion charge that will depend on electronic tracking - if that gets the
go-ahead, it'll serve as a test for the electronic systems (that have worked
just fine in 22 other countries for up to 20 years).

The relevance to London, as well as Dartford, is that our congestion charge
would be much cheaper to administer with electronic beacons in subscribing
cars

Though the tin hat brigade will get extremely excited - it makes Oyster look
like a civil liberties picnic.
--

Andrew

"If A is success in life, then A = x + y + z.
Work is x; y is play; and z is keeping your mouth shut." ~ Albert Einstein

On Thu, 27 Nov 2008, Andrew Heenan wrote:

"Tom Anderson" wrote :
They're pretty much planning to! The government are always murmuring about
nation-wide road pricing schemes. It's only a matter of time before they
start implementing them.

At the moment, it's all down to Manchester, where they vote in December on a
congestion charge that will depend on electronic tracking - if that gets the
go-ahead, it'll serve as a test for the electronic systems (that have worked
just fine in 22 other countries for up to 20 years).

The relevance to London, as well as Dartford, is that our congestion charge
would be much cheaper to administer with electronic beacons in subscribing
cars

Really? Is ANPR that expensive?

Though the tin hat brigade will get extremely excited - it makes Oyster
look like a civil liberties picnic.

There's one thing about the hatters that i don't get. They don't want to
be tracked by oyster card, road charging beacon, ANPR, or CCTV gait
recognition. So why don't they just buy bikes?

tom

--
Any problem in computer science can be solved with another layer of
indirection. -- David Wheeler

"Tom Anderson" wrote:
The relevance to London, as well as Dartford, is that our congestion
charge
would be much cheaper to administer with electronic beacons in
subscribing
cars
Really? Is ANPR that expensive?

Relatively, yes; the hardware is more complex and prone to breakdown and
damage, and the recognition is a several-stage process, which requires a
fair degree of human intervention (and is still open to dispute!).

Beacons are a simply process by comparison, with Crapita finding it much
harder to add in extra expenses.

There's one thing about the hatters that i don't get. They don't want to
be tracked by oyster card, road charging beacon, ANPR, or CCTV gait
recognition. So why don't they just buy bikes?

Bicycle bell recognition may be in its infancy, but I'll have you know that
several studies are progressing on this major surveillance issue.

And did you know that no two tyre prints are identical? Even when new ...
they are made unique as an art form, by subsistence-wage workers in
Southeast Asia.

You heard it here first. Or second. Whatever.
--
Andrew

"When 'Do no Evil' has been understood, then learn the harder, braver rule,
Do Good." ~ Arthur Guiterman