On 9 Dec, 23:43, MIG wrote:
That was my initial question: does it show first arrivals or first
departures? *I spose I could go there and work it out.

Turns out I have a photo of the bloody thing*:
http://picasaweb.google.com/maha.thr...43176564896722

There's a via Greenwich train at 19.38, and a Woolwich via Lewisham at
19.39. Since the Greenwich train almost certainly continues to
Woolwich, and yet Woolwich passengers are told to wait for the 19:39,
It appears to be recommending the earliest arrival rather than simply
the first departure.

(* because it was still showing KXTL and no St Pancras last March)

U

On Dec 10, 12:03*am, Mr Thant
wrote:
On 9 Dec, 23:43, MIG wrote:

That was my initial question: does it show first arrivals or first
departures? *I spose I could go there and work it out.

Turns out I have a photo of the bloody thing*:http://picasaweb.google.com/maha.thr...ndonBridge#527...

There's a via Greenwich train at 19.38, and a Woolwich via Lewisham at
19.39. Since the Greenwich train almost certainly continues to
Woolwich, and yet Woolwich passengers are told to wait for the 19:39,
It appears to be recommending the earliest arrival rather than simply
the first departure.

(* because it was still showing KXTL and no St Pancras last March)

*U

Aha. It certainly does. Next question though ... if the via Woolwich
was 10 minutes late or cancelled, would it show the Greenwich one (one
would hope so, but it makes it all the more mysterious why the one I
saw at Lewisham was so crap)?

On Dec 10, 12:54*am, MIG wrote:
On Dec 10, 12:03*am, Mr Thant





wrote:
On 9 Dec, 23:43, MIG wrote:

That was my initial question: does it show first arrivals or first
departures? *I spose I could go there and work it out.

Turns out I have a photo of the bloody thing*:http://picasaweb.google.com/maha.thr...ndonBridge#527...

There's a via Greenwich train at 19.38, and a Woolwich via Lewisham at
19.39. Since the Greenwich train almost certainly continues to
Woolwich, and yet Woolwich passengers are told to wait for the 19:39,
It appears to be recommending the earliest arrival rather than simply
the first departure.

(* because it was still showing KXTL and no St Pancras last March)

*U

Aha. *It certainly does. *Next question though ... if the via Woolwich
was 10 minutes late or cancelled, would it show the Greenwich one (one
would hope so, but it makes it all the more mysterious why the one I
saw at Lewisham was so crap)?

Er ... actually, it may be a legibility issue. It seems to have been
a Sunday in the old timetable and I think that they are both showing
1939. Note that it shows the next train to Gravesend as the 1954,
which would have been Gillingham via Bexleyheath.

The Woolwich via Lewisham would have been the 1934 which had just gone
or would have been the first to Gravesend.

On Dec 7, 5:00*pm, Tom Anderson wrote:

Would it be enough to establish a controlled vocabulary for describing
kinds of stopping patterns - some or all of 'fast', 'slow', 'local',
'stopping', 'express', 'flyer', 'metro', and whatever else you can think
of - and giving them well-defined meanings which were consistent across
the country and over time (controlled by NR or the DfT rather than the
ToCs, i assume), then applying them everywhere. So in our original
example, when Mr Pedan3 strolled into Reading, he would have seen a sign
saying something like:

1945 Paddington SLOW
Calling at Maidenhead, Taplow, Marlow, Barlow and Farlow, and every other
bloody place between here and Timbuktu
Arrives Paddington 2239 (tomorrow)

And would instantly have known that (a) he could take this train to
Paddington but that (b) he would be wiser not to.

And how about having a stop written in italics, or brackets, or lowercase,
if there's another train (or sensible combination of trains) which will
get you there faster?

How do Switzerland and Germany approach this problem?

Exactly in the way you describe (as do several other 'real' European
countries) - using a nationally consistent hierarchy of names/
designations for trains (ICE/EC/IC/IR/RE/RB/S-Bahn etc). This sort of
standardisation is sadly entirely beyond our grasp (cf. the use of a
national symbol in Germany for U-Bahn, S-Bahn and bus/tram stop,
despite different operators in different cities). I don't really know
why.

On Dec 7, 10:09*pm, "Michael R N Dolbear" wrote:
Ian Jelf wrote





You get this on the ECML too, with slow trains from Cambridge being
advertised as going to Finsbury Park and so on.
It also happens on the Central Line, with trains leaving Woodford for
Central London via Hainault being advertise as for "Hainault", until
they get to Roding Valley, when they suddenly become destined for
Ealing
Broadway (or wherever).
It is a bit weird, but i think it's a good idea.
As good as any, yes. * There's no ideal solution in these situations
and
each one will have pros and cons.

And if "it's lying" is really a common reaction, then change to
"Hainault & beyond" "Finsbury Park & beyond" and so forth which are
"true" but avoid providing a final but confusing destination.

Don't they do something like this at Heathrow T123 - "Cockfosters via
Central London" or something similar, since presumably many new
arrivals at Heathrow will never have heard of Cockfosters or Arnos
Grove :-P

In message
, at
03:21:16 on Wed, 10 Dec 2008, Rupert Candy
remarked:
avoid providing a final but confusing destination.

Don't they do something like this at Heathrow T123 - "Cockfosters via
Central London" or something similar, since presumably many new
arrivals at Heathrow will never have heard of Cockfosters or Arnos
Grove

Whereas most Metro systems *do* expect you to know the distant terminus.
In Brussels for example, I have to look for "Simonis".
--
Roland Perry

In article , Neil Williams
writes
1945 Paddington SLOW
Calling at Maidenhead, Taplow, Marlow, Barlow and Farlow, and every other
bloody place between here and Timbuktu
Arrives Paddington 2239 (tomorrow)

Or maybe:-

1945 SOUTH HAMPSTEAD
(then London Euston)
Calling at lots of places

Euston used to have, on the Solari:

1025 NORTHAMPTON
Watford Junction
...
Wolverton
Northampton
(continuing on to Rugby, Coventry,
Birmingham International, and Birmingham New Street)

with the last bit being in smaller type and a different colour.

--
Clive D.W. Feather | Home:
Tel: +44 20 8495 6138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org
Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work:
Please reply to the Reply-To address, which is:

In article
,
John B writes
It's also possible in London to buy fares from zone boundaries, which
don't require the train to stop irrespective of the type of zonal
ticket you hold - but you need to do so explicitly, buying a return
from Boundary Zone 6 to Reading, not a return from West Drayton. These
are only sold in ticket offices and on trains, not online.

Just a note: a BZ6-Reading "ticket" is not actually a separate ticket;
legally it's a voucher indicating that your ticket has been extended in
validity to Reading. That's why the train doesn't have to stop.

--
Clive D.W. Feather | Home:
Tel: +44 20 8495 6138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org
Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work:
Please reply to the Reply-To address, which is:

On Wed, 10 Dec 2008, Roland Perry wrote:

In message
, at
03:21:16 on Wed, 10 Dec 2008, Rupert Candy remarked:
avoid providing a final but confusing destination.

Don't they do something like this at Heathrow T123 - "Cockfosters via
Central London" or something similar, since presumably many new
arrivals at Heathrow will never have heard of Cockfosters or Arnos
Grove

Whereas most Metro systems *do* expect you to know the distant terminus.
In Brussels for example, I have to look for "Simonis".

Same here, at most places apart from Heathrow. Even as a Londoner and tube
dork, this catches me out sometimes: i was waiting for a Picc train to
somewhere towards Heathrow at one point, and a train came along that was
advertised as going to Osterley (or something). I had to check a map
before i knew if it was one i could catch.


tom

--
solvilvitur ambulando. copy a diamond shape, recording angel. .. ..

On Wed, 10 Dec 2008 03:19:34 -0800 (PST), Rupert Candy
wrote:

Exactly in the way you describe (as do several other 'real' European
countries) - using a nationally consistent hierarchy of names/
designations for trains (ICE/EC/IC/IR/RE/RB/S-Bahn etc). This sort of
standardisation is sadly entirely beyond our grasp (cf. the use of a
national symbol in Germany for U-Bahn, S-Bahn and bus/tram stop,
despite different operators in different cities). I don't really know
why.

We have for many years had a standard symbol for a bus stop nationally
(though it is increasingly being stylised by some Councils), namely a
black-on-white bus symbol (as per those found on road signs) with "Bus
Stop" in a sans-serif font underneath. For some reason, London sees
fit to do its own thing.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.