In article ,
Matthew Dickinson wrote:
The gateline at Waterloo mainline seems to be finished apart from a
few ceiling tiles and and some fencing.

As long as I pass through Waterloo gateline, I am in paradise.

"Paul Corfield" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 13 Dec 2008 11:39:58 -0000, wrote:

[waterloo]

When do they plan to install gates for the Waterloo & City?

You don't need them at Waterloo as Bank is gated and there are no
intermediate stops.

So? You can get transfer onto another line or the DLR via the passageway.

On 13 Dec, 11:15, Roland Perry wrote:

In message 01c95cc0$991a8ca0$LocalHost@default, at 01:21:36 on Sat, 13
Dec 2008, Michael R N Dolbear remarked:

Is there such a thing as a Off-peak Single ?

Depends on the route. I've found them to be less prevalent near London.

There isn't for Richmond to London.

That's a fare that falls within the London zonal fares regime - since
January 2007 all National Rail fares in the London zones, regardless
of TOC, are priced set according to a zonal fare scale (though still
issued on a point-to-point basis).

The only tickets available for such journeys are Anytime Singles,
Anytime Day Returns and Off-Peak Returns (aka CDRs) - plus of course
Travelcards and Oyster PAYG on a limited number of routes (and indeed
LU fares on a few routes that have interavailable ticketing).

On 13 Dec, 13:52, wrote:

"Paul Corfield" wrote:

On Sat, 13 Dec 2008 11:39:58 -0000, wrote:

[waterloo]

When do they plan to install gates for the Waterloo & City?

You don't need them at Waterloo as Bank is gated and there are no
intermediate stops.

So? You can get transfer onto another line or the DLR via the passageway.

The point Mr Thant is making is that in a sense Waterloo W&C line
offers ungated access to the LU network. As a response I'd say that
it's pretty much impossible to enclose the LU network in a
hermetically sealed bubble.

On 13 Dec, 08:38, sweek wrote:
It is switched on and it still seems to be causing quite a few
problems. I may be wrong here but are the gates working in both
directions at the same time? That's what it looked like the last few
days to me. They really need to make sure that people from 17/18 exit
via platform 19 as we almost didn't make our trains due to the high
number of people trying to get off via the small number of gates at
17/18.

No standard gates that I've ever come across are bi-directional at the
same time - that would cause a total nightmare with people walking
head-first into each other all the time! Instead gates can simply be
switched from one direction to the other as required by traffic flow.

On Sat, 13 Dec 2008 13:52:33 -0000, wrote:

"Paul Corfield" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 13 Dec 2008 11:39:58 -0000, wrote:

[waterloo]

When do they plan to install gates for the Waterloo & City?

You don't need them at Waterloo as Bank is gated and there are no
intermediate stops.

So? You can get transfer onto another line or the DLR via the passageway.

There is no practical or safe way of gating Waterloo W&C. The long
gallery is too narrow and to place them at the ends of the ramps /
stairs would offer too little space. Also it is madness to place gates
at the tops of stairs or ramps with no reservoir or run off area. The
same argument applies to the exits at Waterloo - gates would be placed
in corridors or very busy circulating areas. I understand there are
huge queues at Waterloo for the W&C in the peaks and that these extend
right up the stairs and ramps - another factor making gating unsafe and
impractical. There is no point in sacrificing common sense just to
stick gates in and I say that as an advocate of them!

I wasn't aware that the DLR corridor gateline had gone at Bank as it's
yonks since I have been there. However the LU system is not fully gated
and never, ever will be in my view. There are too many places where
cross platform interchange exists and where it is completely impossible
to gate that there is always a risk of "leakage".

This is why LU uses validators for such locations where there is a
boundary between fare systems - I devised the concept of the Prestige
validator and wrote it into the specification. At that time I was not
aware that it would become quite so well used at places like DLR and
Tramlink and NR locations but generally it works. I'd prefer there to
be more publicity to aid passengers using them so the circumstances in
which you touch or not were clearer.
--
Paul C

In message
, at
06:07:10 on Sat, 13 Dec 2008, Mizter T remarked:
No standard gates that I've ever come across are bi-directional at the
same time - that would cause a total nightmare with people walking
head-first into each other all the time!

The 30p turnstiles at station toilets.
--
Roland Perry

"Mizter T" wrote ...
You don't need them at Waterloo as Bank is gated and there are no
intermediate stops.
So? You can get transfer onto another line or the DLR via the passageway.
The point Mr Thant is making is that in a sense Waterloo W&C line
offers ungated access to the LU network. As a response I'd say that
it's pretty much impossible to enclose the LU network in a
hermetically sealed bubble.

You can enter via the Finsbury Park - Moorgate link, too, and I'm sure there
are others. But so long as one end or the other is gated, 99.9% of journeys
will be monitored at some point.

Plus it's only a question of time before DLR is under pressure to improve
security, especially once the six-car trains get moving.
--

Andrew

On 13 Dec, 14:46, "Andrew Heenan" wrote:

"Mizter T" wrote ...

You don't need them at Waterloo as Bank is gated and there are no
intermediate stops.
So? You can get transfer onto another line or the DLR via the passageway.
The point Mr Thant is making is that in a sense Waterloo W&C line
offers ungated access to the LU network. As a response I'd say that
it's pretty much impossible to enclose the LU network in a
hermetically sealed bubble.

You can enter via the Finsbury Park - Moorgate link, too, and I'm sure there
are others. But so long as one end or the other is gated, 99.9% of journeys
will be monitored at some point.

There are many others but I'm not going to start making a list of
them! Agree in essence about the point re one or other end of the
journey being gated, but of course there are numerous journeys where
neither end is gated - again I've no intention of making a list of
them! As Paul C says downthread, the system is permeable and this will
always be the case - gates help but they are not a solution to fare
evasion in and of themselves.


Plus it's only a question of time before DLR is under pressure to improve
security, especially once the six-car trains get moving.


By security I take it you mean fare checking (or 'revenue inspection'
- but I dislike that phrase because I think it's very narrow) - not
quite the same thing in my mind but of course they overlap.
Interesting thought - I hadn't considered the difference six car
trains (or three car - depending on how you look at it!) might make to
checking tickets. Most DLR stations simply ain't set up to accomodate
tickets gates, so I dare say that if there is deemed to be an issue
then teams of roving inspectors would fit the bill - I don't think
I've ever come across such a thing on a DLR train actually, though I
have seen ticket checking teams at stations a few times.

In message of Sat, 13 Dec
2008 14:10:03 in uk.transport.london, Paul Corfield
writes

[snip]

in corridors or very busy circulating areas. I understand there are
huge queues at Waterloo for the W&C in the peaks and that these extend
right up the stairs and ramps - another factor making gating unsafe and
impractical. There is no point in sacrificing common sense just to
stick gates in and I say that as an advocate of them!

[snip]

I gave up an attempt to use the W&C from Waterloo at about 0830. The
crowd extended to the chocolate shop. I was surprised more people did
not divert. I did not have time to see how long the delay was. BTW, why
do trains to Bank wait outside the station rather than on the platform?
This is particularly noticeable and irritating off-peak.
--
Walter Briscoe