On 21 Dec, 07:51, Adrian wrote:
gurgled happily, sounding much like they were
saying:

Does anybody here seriously think that a new bus will be allowed with
open rear deck.
I sincerely hope so.
An open platform may make sense in Oxford Street where the speeds of
traffic are pretty slow but really anywhere else it is simply dangerous
- the only justification of an open platform is so that people can get
on and off at places which aren't bus stops - is there any other?.

Does there need to be? Isn't that compelling enough already?


It's about as compelling as saying that you should be able to park
your car absolutely anywhere regardless of the effect on traffice. If
it was the right way to proceed there wouldn't be rules against
drivers opening the doors on conventional buses when they aren't at
stops.

Mind you, Oxford Street is the only place I saw a potential boarder fall
backwards off a Routemaster into the gutter when they missed a bus
moving off.

****ed, was he?

Not at all. It was an apparently sober female shopper carrying
shopping bags who went to board a bus moving off at Oxford Circus and
didn't make it. Are you trying to suggest that only drunk people run
for buses and miss them?

On Dec 21, 1:07*pm, wrote:
On 21 Dec, 07:51, Adrian wrote:

gurgled happily, sounding much like they were
saying:

Does anybody here seriously think that a new bus will be allowed with
open rear deck.
I sincerely hope so.
An open platform may make sense in Oxford Street where the speeds of
traffic are pretty slow but really anywhere else it is simply dangerous
- the only justification of an open platform is so that people can get
on and off at places which aren't bus stops - is there any other?.

Does there need to be? Isn't that compelling enough already?

It's about as compelling as saying that you should be able to park
your car absolutely anywhere regardless of the effect on traffice. *If
it was the right way to proceed there wouldn't be rules against
drivers opening the doors on conventional buses when they aren't at
stops.

Mind you, Oxford Street is the only place I saw a potential boarder fall
backwards off a Routemaster into the gutter when they missed a bus
moving off.

****ed, was he?

Not at all. *It was an apparently sober female shopper carrying
shopping bags who went to board a bus moving off at Oxford Circus and
didn't make it. *Are you trying to suggest that only drunk people run
for buses and miss them?

I expect that open platforms would be a far greater risk nowadays,
with drivers effectively required to avoid letting people get on or
off in order to keep to timings (and all stops being request stops
now).

On 21 Dec, 13:23, MIG wrote:

(snip)

I expect that open platforms would be a far greater risk nowadays,
with drivers effectively required to avoid letting people get on or
off in order to keep to timings (and all stops being request stops
now).

Are all stops request stops now? I know there was a consultation on
this (to which I didn't respond, grrr) but is this now official
policy, or just your interpretation of what happens in reality?

On Dec 21, 2:13*pm, Mizter T wrote:
On 21 Dec, 13:23, MIG wrote:



(snip)

I expect that open platforms would be a far greater risk nowadays,
with drivers effectively required to avoid letting people get on or
off in order to keep to timings (and all stops being request stops
now).

Are all stops request stops now? I know there was a consultation on
this (to which I didn't respond, grrr) but is this now official
policy, or just your interpretation of what happens in reality?

That's an interesting point ... firstly, yes I was referring
facetiously to what is effectively the situation now (having been
whisked past a white-coloured stop at Trafalgar Square in the rush
hour when I was standing by the door, plus other examples, I am in no
doubt).

But the thing about the proposal was that drivers would have to stop
at all stops if there was someone there, even current request stops,
so they'd probably end up stopping much more than they currently do.

"MIG" wrote in message
...
On Dec 21, 2:13 pm, Mizter T wrote:
On 21 Dec, 13:23, MIG wrote:



(snip)

I expect that open platforms would be a far greater risk nowadays,
with drivers effectively required to avoid letting people get on or
off in order to keep to timings (and all stops being request stops
now).

Are all stops request stops now? I know there was a consultation on
this (to which I didn't respond, grrr) but is this now official
policy, or just your interpretation of what happens in reality?

That's an interesting point ... firstly, yes I was referring
facetiously to what is effectively the situation now (having been
whisked past a white-coloured stop at Trafalgar Square in the rush
hour when I was standing by the door, plus other examples, I am in no
doubt).

Merely standing by the door is not a reliable indication that you want to
get off at the next stop. AFAIK it's been the case for many years that
passengers wishing to alight should press a red button, whether it's a
compulsory or request stop (that distinction being meaningful only for
prospective passengers at the stop).

But the thing about the proposal was that drivers would have to stop
at all stops if there was someone there, even current request stops,
so they'd probably end up stopping much more than they currently do.

Maybe that's why it doesn't seem to have been implemented. I haven't found
any decision mentioned in the TfL board minutes. Does anyone know if a
decision was made or are they still thinking about it? Consultation ended
in July 2007.
--
Richard J.
(to email me, swap 'uk' and 'yon' in address)

On Sun, 21 Dec 2008 05:07:30 -0800 (PST), wrote:

Does anybody here seriously think that a new bus will be allowed with
open rear deck.
I sincerely hope so.
An open platform may make sense in Oxford Street where the speeds of
traffic are pretty slow but really anywhere else it is simply dangerous
- the only justification of an open platform is so that people can get
on and off at places which aren't bus stops - is there any other?.

Does there need to be? Isn't that compelling enough already?

It's about as compelling as saying that you should be able to park
your car absolutely anywhere regardless of the effect on traffice.

How is that even remotely comparable? Getting on or off a Routemaster
that's stopped at lights or in traffic doesn't delay anyone else. (In
fact, it actually speeds up the journey for other bus passengers, as
the bus won't have to spend time at the next stop waiting for you to
get on/off.)

On Sat, 20 Dec 2008 14:22:22 -0800 (PST), wrote:

Does anybody here seriously think that a new bus will be allowed with
open rear deck.

I sincerely hope so.

An open platform may make sense in Oxford Street where the speeds of
traffic are pretty slow but really anywhere else it is simply
dangerous - the only justification of an open platform is so that
people can get on and off at places which aren't bus stops - is there
any other?.

- Journeys are sped up even for passengers who only board and alight
at bus stops, because the bus needs to spend less time stopped at
stops, because some people have already alighted and boarded while the
bus was stationary for some other reason.

- It also saves time at each stop, as there is no need to wait for the
doors to open and close. (A Routemaster can stop at a stop, pick
someone up, and move off in literally 2 seconds.)

On Dec 21, 5:19*pm, "Richard J." wrote:
"MIG" wrote in message

...





On Dec 21, 2:13 pm, Mizter T wrote:
On 21 Dec, 13:23, MIG wrote:

(snip)

I expect that open platforms would be a far greater risk nowadays,
with drivers effectively required to avoid letting people get on or
off in order to keep to timings (and all stops being request stops
now).

Are all stops request stops now? I know there was a consultation on
this (to which I didn't respond, grrr) but is this now official
policy, or just your interpretation of what happens in reality?

That's an interesting point ... firstly, yes I was referring
facetiously to what is effectively the situation now (having been
whisked past a white-coloured stop at Trafalgar Square in the rush
hour when I was standing by the door, plus other examples, I am in no
doubt).

Merely standing by the door is not a reliable indication that you want to
get off at the next stop. *AFAIK it's been the case for many years that
passengers wishing to alight should press a red button, whether it's a
compulsory or request stop (that distinction being meaningful only for
prospective passengers at the stop).

Indeed not, which is why I always now press the button (and also get
up later, wasting more time).

However, this merely confirms what I said, which is that all stops are
now request stops. It used to the the case that a bus stop being
white in colour was all that was required to make the bus stop there.
London Transport didn't distinguish between people inside and outside
the bus.


But the thing about the proposal was that drivers would have to stop
at all stops if there was someone there, even current request stops,
so they'd probably end up stopping much more than they currently do.

Maybe that's why it doesn't seem to have been implemented. I haven't found
any decision mentioned in the TfL board minutes. *Does anyone know if a
decision was made or are they still thinking about it? *Consultation ended
in July 2007.

Maybe the responses suitably riduculed the proposal, given the
reality, and they realised that they had already got away with a
reduction in stops well beyond what they were proposing.

On 21 Dec, 21:54, asdf wrote:
On Sat, 20 Dec 2008 14:22:22 -0800 (PST), wrote:
Does anybody here seriously think that a new bus will be allowed with
open rear deck.

I sincerely hope so.

An open platform may make sense in Oxford Street where the speeds of
traffic are pretty slow but really anywhere else it is simply
dangerous - the only justification of an open platform is so that
people can get on and off at places which aren't bus stops - is there
any other?.

- Journeys are sped up even for passengers who only board and alight
at bus stops, because the bus needs to spend less time stopped at
stops, because some people have already alighted and boarded while the
bus was stationary for some other reason.

- It also saves time at each stop, as there is no need to wait for the
doors to open and close. (A Routemaster can stop at a stop, pick
someone up, and move off in literally 2 seconds.)

So, why not run conventional buses down Oxford Street (and other
places of excessive congestion and lots of traffic lights) with the
doors open in advance of the introduction of the Boris-bus?

(I appreciate that conventional buses with conductors on route 55
wasn't a success which is perhaps why the driver has to be locked away
at the front with a rear entrance if conductors are to be reinstated.)

On Sun, 21 Dec 2008 15:11:07 -0800 (PST), wrote:

Does anybody here seriously think that a new bus will be allowed with
open rear deck.

I sincerely hope so.

An open platform may make sense in Oxford Street where the speeds of
traffic are pretty slow but really anywhere else it is simply
dangerous - the only justification of an open platform is so that
people can get on and off at places which aren't bus stops - is there
any other?.

- Journeys are sped up even for passengers who only board and alight
at bus stops, because the bus needs to spend less time stopped at
stops, because some people have already alighted and boarded while the
bus was stationary for some other reason.

- It also saves time at each stop, as there is no need to wait for the
doors to open and close. (A Routemaster can stop at a stop, pick
someone up, and move off in literally 2 seconds.)

So, why not run conventional buses down Oxford Street (and other
places of excessive congestion and lots of traffic lights) with the
doors open in advance of the introduction of the Boris-bus?

Good idea!