On 13 Jan, 21:16, Tom Anderson wrote:

On Tue, 13 Jan 2009, Mizter T wrote:

On 13 Jan, 19:44, Mizter T wrote:

Keep your one there-and-back service a week version of integrated
transport to yourself please! I'll opt for the rather straightforward
integrated transport solution of taking a train from Wandsworth Road to
Victoria then the District line direct to Ealing Broadway.

Want Kensington Olympia? Well take the District line and change at
Earls Court for KO, or catching the Circle line from Victoria to High
Street Kensington (just up the road from KO), or taking the train from
nearby Queenstown Road Battersea or Battersea Park to Clapham Junction
and catching a train up the WLL to KO, or taking the 453 bus that
starts at Wandsworth Road over the river and up to Kensington...

Spot the drafting error... or should that be spotting the drafting
error. My tenses obviously got somewhat muddled!

I don't know about that, but your later remarks about tinnies were
certainly a draughting error.


Excellent.

So, has a (moving) train ever offered proper draught beer on tap?
Would it even work? Me thinks it might somewhat unsettle the beer...
...sound of head scratching head whilst trying and failing to think
of a pun, any pun to do with the S&CR that would make the vaguest bit
of sense... ...

Actually I wouldn't past it these railtour mobs to have done just
that. Can anyone confirm or deny?

In message
Mizter T wrote:


On 13 Jan, 21:16, Tom Anderson wrote:

On Tue, 13 Jan 2009, Mizter T wrote:

On 13 Jan, 19:44, Mizter T wrote:

Keep your one there-and-back service a week version of integrated
transport to yourself please! I'll opt for the rather straightforward
integrated transport solution of taking a train from Wandsworth Road to
Victoria then the District line direct to Ealing Broadway.

Want Kensington Olympia? Well take the District line and change at
Earls Court for KO, or catching the Circle line from Victoria to High
Street Kensington (just up the road from KO), or taking the train from
nearby Queenstown Road Battersea or Battersea Park to Clapham Junction
and catching a train up the WLL to KO, or taking the 453 bus that
starts at Wandsworth Road over the river and up to Kensington...

Spot the drafting error... or should that be spotting the drafting
error. My tenses obviously got somewhat muddled!

I don't know about that, but your later remarks about tinnies were
certainly a draughting error.


Excellent.

So, has a (moving) train ever offered proper draught beer on tap?
Would it even work? Me thinks it might somewhat unsettle the beer...

Both the Worth Valley and the Watercress Line regularly serve draught beer on
the move. My father used to reminisce about the draught beer he got on the
train from Scotland to London when coming home on leave during the war.


--
Graeme Wall
This address is not read, substitute trains for rail.
Transport Miscellany at http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail/index.html

"Mizter T" wrote

So, has a (moving) train ever offered proper draught beer on tap?

I don't know how proper it was, but HST buffets offered draught beer when
they were first introduced. IIRC it didn't lasst long.

Peter

On 13 Jan, 21:25, Tom Barry wrote:

Mizter T wrote:
[x-posted to uk.transport.london]
[original thread at uk.railway]

On 13 Jan, 19:03, Tom Barry wrote:

Anyway, the idea of having express bus routes (more than the meagre
three current ones) was actually championed by your best mate Boris
during the election!

Yup, but orbital ones, I think. *I read that commitment as part of his
strategy to portray the poor suburbs as having been neglected by Eeeevil
Ken, rather than as a serious policy (the only manifestation of it after
TfL got hold of Boris so far being a few extra buses on the X26,
doubling the frequency to a mind-blowing half-hourly). *It was never
exactly fleshed out, nor was it ever really explained how it would
contribute to things, although compared to, say, replacing bendies on
the 507 and 521 it seems positively sane.


I agree about the politics behind it. One thing I find particularly
interesting is the fact that it was the outer-borough of Bromley,
fuelled by a combination of Tory loathing of Ken's Labour GLC and
indignation about the perceived unfairness of the Fares Fair policy -
which used London rate payers money through the GLC to subsidise LT
but not BR services - that managed to have that very policy killed
off. However AIUI the GLC had wanted to also subsidise BR services in
London, but the Tory central government opposed this (and BR obviously
fell under its remit). So there's some indignation from locals at the
lack of subsidy extending to BR which local Tories stoke up, yet Tory
ministers in government were the ones that derailed the chance of this
in the first place (which fits in with the Thatcherite ethos).

Fast forward to last year - Boris is mouthing off about getting better
transport in the outer suburbs, but it's Ken who (a) has managed to
channel a significant degree of TfL funding into improving rail
facilities in London, specifically stations, and (b) has espoused over
and over again his desire to get and take control of as much of the
rail network in London as he can. Boris hasn't said anything of the
sort so far, and there hasn't really been any suggestion of what
powers he might like central government to cede to him should the
Tories get elected - apart from the Met Police, but we'll leave that
aside as it's a large but rather different issue. Obviously there's a
budget crunch at TfL and that to a greater or lesser degree that would
have come regardless of who the Mayor was, but one hopes that TfL do
continue to fund and forcefully push for improvements to suburban
rail.

Anyway you know all that political stuff already.

With regards to the notion of express bus routes - I certainly think
it's got potential, and I thought so long before the words passed
Bozza's lips. Orbital, radial, whatever - if they were to work and
fulfil a need and provide a link then they sound like a good idea to
me. I even wouldn't have any particular issues with them charging a
small premium on the normal bus fare.

By the by I can't help but wonder if the 507 and 521 have somehow been
purposefully (albeit subtly) chosen so as to make the grand bendy-
axing project fail, or at least to blunt the knife somewhat.


I was musing more along the lines of filling in some of the odd gaps in
the Tube/rail network where connections aren't quite made - Hammersmith
to Wimbledon, say, or Richmond to Croydon. *Obviously Ealing to
Wandsworth is only a bus route because of the 2005 Railways Act rather
than for any logical reason.

Hmm, Hammersmith to Wimbledon - must say I can't see that fulfilling a
gaping hole or massive need, travelling on the Tube and changing at
Earl's Court would essentially seem to suffice.

Richmond to Croydon - that's more like it, but broadly speaking that's
more of less the route of the existing X26 (Croydon via Kingston to
Heathrow).

Ealing to Wandsworth Road would in my mind fall under the banner of
being an orbital route. I see you've made a classic mistake of
presuming that Wandsworth Road is in Wandsworth - it ain't, and it's
not in LB Wandsworth either! It be on the road to Wandsworth - but not
the train line to Wandsworth (well, I suppose it could have trains to
Wandsworth Town or Wandsworth Common if there were to be a few
changes...).

Regarding its actual locality, well, it would be for the best if the
station was renamed Batterclapstock, or even Lambatterclapstock. See
Tom Anderson's highlighted post and those which follow in this thread
from last week:

http://groups.google.co.uk/group/uk....49160484e56bc2


* would you immediately become an illegal booze hound?

Good question! *I must try it, but considering the size of the bottles
of Bacardi Breezer being swigged on the 272 during Carnival and the
numbers of empty cans routinely found on the top deck of buses, the
booze ban is a bit of a sham anyway.


Carnival and New Year's Eve are exempt - didn't you know? Just ask any
copper!

I have to say that I do think there's been a reduction in empties (or
worse, not-quite-empties) rolling around on the floors of buses and
Tube trains... but the whole question of the booze ban is one I
haven't quite got the energy to tackle at the mo! (Just to be clear,
I'm somewhat equivocal about the whole issue, I can see it from both
sides of the fence.)

On Tue, 13 Jan 2009, Mizter T wrote:

Regarding its actual locality, well, it would be for the best if the
station was renamed Batterclapstock, or even Lambatterclapstock.

I want to add that 'batterclapstock' sounds to me like an onomatopoeic
name for the sound trains make as they go over jointed track.

tom

--
But in natural sciences whose conclusions are true and necessary and
have nothing to do with human will, one must take care not to place
oneself in the defence of error; for here a thousand Demostheneses and
a thousand Aristotles would be left in the lurch by every mediocre wit
who happened to hit upon the truth for himself. -- Galileo

On Jan 13, 11:31*pm, Mizter T wrote:
...One thing I find particularly
interesting is the fact that it was the outer-borough of Bromley,
fuelled by a combination of Tory loathing of Ken's Labour GLC and
indignation about the perceived unfairness of the Fares Fair policy -
which used London rate payers money through the GLC to subsidise LT
but not BR services - that managed to have that very policy killed
off. However AIUI the GLC had wanted to also subsidise BR services in
London, but the Tory central government opposed this (and BR obviously
fell under its remit). So there's some indignation from locals at the
lack of subsidy extending to BR which local Tories stoke up, yet Tory
ministers in government were the ones that derailed the chance of this
in the first place (which fits in with the Thatcherite ethos).

Fast forward to last year - Boris is mouthing off about getting better
transport in the outer suburbs, but it's Ken who (a) has managed to
channel a significant degree of TfL funding into improving rail
facilities in London, specifically stations, and (b) has espoused over
and over again his desire to get and take control of as much of the
rail network in London as he can. Boris hasn't said anything of the
sort so far...

But Ken is, like, a Red Commie who has Lunch with Evil Dictators like
Hugo Chavez. So the fact that he's the only person to have run London,
err, ever, who gives a toss about London as an entity, and that pretty
much everything he did whilst in power was actually good for outer
London as well as inner (with the 'all London's money to ropey
collectives of dykes and darkies' stuff being largely made up by
ignorant bigots), pales into insignificance compared to the back-of-a-
cab blowharding that Made This Country Great.

[the Tories I used to work with before I stopped being a management
consultant are suffering in the current downturn and mysteriously
becoming supporters of workplace democracy and employee power. I find
this entertaining. And am certainly not planning to offer them
jobs...]

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org

On 13 Jan, 22:52, Graeme Wall wrote:

In message
* * * * * Mizter T wrote:

On 13 Jan, 21:16, Tom Anderson wrote:

On Tue, 13 Jan 2009, Mizter T wrote:

(snip)

Spot the drafting error... or should that be spotting the drafting
error. My tenses obviously got somewhat muddled!

I don't know about that, but your later remarks about tinnies were
certainly a draughting error.

Excellent.

So, has a (moving) train ever offered proper draught beer on tap?
Would it even work? Me thinks it might somewhat unsettle the beer...

Both the Worth Valley and the Watercress Line regularly serve draught beer on
the move. *My father used to reminisce about the draught beer he got on the
train from Scotland to London when coming home on leave during the war.


Shows how much I know then! I suspect there are more such corrections
on the way...

Dare I be so bold as to enquire where and with whom you're father was
stationed, out of nothing more than idle curiosity?

In message
Mizter T wrote:


On 13 Jan, 22:52, Graeme Wall wrote:

In message
* * * * * Mizter T wrote:

On 13 Jan, 21:16, Tom Anderson wrote:

On Tue, 13 Jan 2009, Mizter T wrote:

(snip)

Spot the drafting error... or should that be spotting the drafting
error. My tenses obviously got somewhat muddled!

I don't know about that, but your later remarks about tinnies were
certainly a draughting error.

Excellent.

So, has a (moving) train ever offered proper draught beer on tap?
Would it even work? Me thinks it might somewhat unsettle the beer...

Both the Worth Valley and the Watercress Line regularly serve draught
beer on the move. *My father used to reminisce about the draught beer he
got on the train from Scotland to London when coming home on leave during
the war.


Shows how much I know then! I suspect there are more such corrections
on the way...

Dare I be so bold as to enquire where and with whom you're father was
stationed, out of nothing more than idle curiosity?

RAF in Iceland! Used to fly back into Leuchars and then train south. That
was 1944-5.

Going back to the Watercress Line, they run real ale trains where they also
serve a mean curry.

--
Graeme Wall
This address is not read, substitute trains for rail.
Transport Miscellany at http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail/index.html

"Peter Masson" wrote...
So, has a (moving) train ever offered proper draught beer on tap?
I don't know how proper it was, but HST buffets offered draught beer when
they were first introduced. IIRC it didn't lasst long.

And I'm sure I've read about some of the 'heritage' lines running beer
trains, I think it was in the west country, somewhere ..

.... and I'm talking about draught beer, not carbonated keg red barrel (or
similar), which was all you ever got on InterCity ;o)
--

Andrew

On Wed, 14 Jan 2009, Graeme Wall wrote:

In message
Mizter T wrote:

On 13 Jan, 22:52, Graeme Wall wrote:

In message
* * * * * Mizter T wrote:

So, has a (moving) train ever offered proper draught beer on tap?
Would it even work? Me thinks it might somewhat unsettle the beer...

My father used to reminisce about the draught beer he
got on the train from Scotland to London when coming home on leave during
the war.

Dare I be so bold as to enquire where and with whom you're father was
stationed, out of nothing more than idle curiosity?

RAF in Iceland!

Ah yes, after we invaded it - one of my favourite surreal bits of the war,
that:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_Iceland

tom

--
The Impossible is True