"Mizter T" wrote :
A more intriguing question is when are Eurostar trains going
to begin stopping there? There has been some speculation in the past
that Stratford Int'l might never actually see any Eurostar trains ...
This *very old news* suggests they do not want to stop there -
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle1082863.ece
"[Rob Holden, chief executive of LCR] said that Eurostar had yet to
make a final decision on where its trains would stop but an
announcement would be made in early summer."
No such announcement ever came, did it?

Nope - in fact, I'm 99% sure that not one Eurostar press release since has
even mentioned Stratford International - which doesn't mean that Greater
Forces Won't Prevail - they just might!
--

Andrew

Interviewer: Tonight I'm interviewing that famous nurse, Florence
Nightingale
Tommy Cooper (dressed as a nurse): Sir Florence Nightingale
Interviewer: *Sir* Florence Nightingale?
Tommy Cooper: I'm a Night Nurse

Campaign For The Real Tommy Cooper

"Mizter T" wrote in message
...

It's not so much political pressure, more the demand from Docklands-
based business that I think would be significant. Eurostar from
Stratford Int'l is in a sense on a par with London City Airport (LCY)
- stopping Eurostar at Stratford makes it a rather more attractive
option compared to a somewhat disjointed journey via St. Pancras or
Ebbsfleet.


If only they had extended the Jubilee Line or even the Poplar - Stratford
DLR to International. Too late now though, so it's yet more changing en
route.

Paul S

Andrew Heenan wrote:
Political pressure seems to have already guaranteed a token service for
Ashford, but Stratford is so close to St. P-I, that it'll take a political
storm to add eight minutes to everyone else's journey.

Eight minutes to the journey of passengers alighting at St. P-I, but
compare that against the extra time taken for passengers who prefer
Stratford to get to StPI. To be fair, you'd need to compare likely
passenger preference with estimated delays on both options. Perhaps
even add in issues of station crowding and throughput -- I used e*
from StPI just before Xmas and it was pretty overcrowded just past
the gates in departures.

I'm not claiming an answer either way. But simply stating that everyones
journey is +8 minutes slower isn't right. For myself, at the moment, I'd
prefer the old slower times from Waterloo than faster ones from StPi or
Stratford. From my front door to Paris Thingy du Nord, that would be
easier and probably take about the same time.


#Paul

On 29 Jan, 13:08, Paul Terry wrote:

In message
,
Mizter T writes

There has been some speculation in the past that Stratford Int'l might
never actually see any Eurostar trains stop there, and passengers would
be herded onto the Southeastern high-speed trains to get to either
Ebbsfleet or St. Pancras. I've pondered this in the past, but am now of
the attitude that they surely will stop there in the future - it's just
a question of when.

It's probably more a question of cost - in particular, the cost of
maintaining customs and security staff for international services.



It would also add time - apparently up to eight minutes - to the
overall journey to and from St. Pancras. This thus gives Eurostar a
less attractive headline journey time, which in turn makes it a bit
less attractive to travellers. The question is this is it worthwhile.
The answer from Eurostar is likely to be no, at least not for most
trains - though the market for travellers to and from Stratford (in
particular Docklands business people) might conceivably make it
worthwhile to stop a few, though Eurostar may just as well send them
on to Ebbsfleet on the SE high-speed service and get them to change
onto Eurostar trains there.

"Paul Scott" wrote
I don't think Stratford International will ever see more than a token
Eurostar train or two stopping on the way to/from St Pancras. OTOH it
makes a lot of sense to use it as the only London stop if through trains
to the Midlands ever happen. Oh - and I see a pig has just crashed to
earth in my back garden...

.... or even if they ever build that through line to Heathrow.
Dang! that one just landed in the greenhouse ...
--

Andrew

"Paul Scott" wrote ...
If only they had extended the Jubilee Line or even the Poplar - Stratford
DLR to International. Too late now though, so it's yet more changing en
route.

I was actually amazed that they didn't ever even propose to extend the
poplar line through to International; but it makes sense - as well as
costing money, it would have encouraged those Docklands folk to go there!
--

Andrew

"She plays the tuba.
It is the only instrument capable
of imitating a distress call."

On 29 Jan, 13:08, "Paul Scott" wrote:

"Mizter T" wrote:

On 29 Jan, 11:55, Paul Terry wrote:

In message
,
writes

Any date fixed yet, does anyone know?

I imagine it will be 13th December, which is the day that SouthEastern's
high speed service is due to start.

I agree. A more intriguing question is when are Eurostar trains going
to begin stopping there? There has been some speculation in the past
that Stratford Int'l might never actually see any Eurostar trains stop
there, and passengers would be herded onto the Southeastern high-speed
trains to get to either Ebbsfleet or St. Pancras. I've pondered this
in the past, but am now of the attitude that they surely will stop
there in the future - it's just a question of when. I'm guessing the
answer lies in good part as to when the surrounding area will look
rather less like a building site.

I don't think Stratford International will ever see more than a token
Eurostar train or two stopping on the way to/from St Pancras. OTOH it makes
a lot of sense to use it as the only London stop if through trains to the
Midlands ever happen. *Oh - and I see a pig has just crashed to earth in my
back garden...


Perhaps you're right, quite possibly so in fact. Ignoring political
considerations, it basically depends on whether the perceived market
for international travellers to and from Stratford would make it
worthwhile stopping there. Perhaps there might be a few trains that
stop there timed well for business meetings and the like. The reason
I'm playing on the business angle is that businessfolk like
convenience - the need to go to Ebbsfleet (or St. P) to change and
also jump through the check-in hoops would undoubtedly be a hassle in
comparison to a direct train. Were it not for the check-in palaver
then making use of the SE high-speed trains and interchanging at say
Ebbsfleet would be a more attractive proposition. And as we know, the
check-in requirement isn't about to disappear any time soon.

As you say, in the world of porcine aviation Stratford would make a
good London stop for trains heading to points north.

So, was Stratford *International* station always a mere sop to garner
support for the CTRL - I dare say that's more or less what Tony Polson
would come up with. The complicating factor in such an analysis is the
plan for the Kent domestic high-speed services - I'm a bit hazy on the
background to these plans, I understand that there was always the
potential for them but it was the 1998 CTRL financial restructuring
that led to them being a certainty (basically they were part of the
return for the investment of public money).

On 29 Jan, 14:01, "Andrew Heenan" wrote:
I was actually amazed that they didn't ever even propose to extend the
poplar line through to International;

How would you do this? You can either make a loop to the south and go
through the NLL underpass, but that requires also converting Stratford-
Canning Town to DLR otherwise you won't get permission to close the
NLL in the first place. And if you build that, the connection from the
Poplar line becomes inessential.

Alternatively you can build a new flyover across the Great Eastern
Main Line if you get out the really big chequebook. Although then you
have the question how to get from the flyover to SI cheaply without
spoiling the development land by crossing it at grade.

costing money, it would have encouraged those Docklands folk to go there!

Hooking up a trainless station into the local transport network was
always going to be at the lowest possible cost. The Stratford Canning
Town section of the current scheme has a reasonable cost-benefit ratio
on its own, so the only SI-specific expense is the northern part.

U

On 29 Jan, 14:01, "Andrew Heenan" wrote:

"Paul Scott" wrote ...

If only they had extended the Jubilee Line or even the Poplar -
Stratford
DLR to International. Too late now though, so it's yet more changing en
route.

I was actually amazed that they didn't ever even propose to extend the
poplar line through to International; but it makes sense - as well as
costing money, it would have encouraged those Docklands folk to go there!


Ha!

To be fair, extending the Poplar/ Bow Church line to Stratford Int'l would
have required some very expensive construction - for a start, it's along a
totally wrong alignment coming into Stratford Regional station. Pondering on
potential plans that would've resulted in the line serving both Stratford
Regional and International stations leads one to some fairly outlandish
plans. I suppose the get-out answer is to say that the Poplar line could
have descended into a tunnel after Pudding Mill Lane, served Stratford
Regional station from new underground platforms, then proceeded to Stratford
International. Rather easier said than done, me thinks!

The other factor is that the 'Stratford International Extension' meshed
almost perfectly with the plan to take over the alignment of the North
London Line between Canning Town and Stratford. But I don't think it's a
simple case of the DLR planners simply tagging on Stratford Int'l to their
plans so as to make it more attractive - the DLR is, after all, a local
railway, it's raison d'etre is not in providing immaculate connections
between a prospective international terminal and a business district. I'm
sure it would have done so were that the masterplan handed down and paid for
from above, but the DLR isn't in the business of lobbying for such things.

The other thing to bear in mind is that whilst Stratford Int'l is currently
in the midst of a building site, eventually those buildings will, er, become
built! The new DLR station will be well placed to serve the new Stratford
City and Olympic Park developments - it's not just about connecting in with
high-speed services (domestic and possibly international) from Stratford
Int'l station. And of course it'll improve local transport facilities no end
for people between Canning Town and Stratford.

On 29 Jan, 13:37, wrote:

Andrew Heenan wrote:
Political pressure seems to have already guaranteed a token service for
Ashford, but Stratford is so close to St. P-I, that it'll take a
political
storm to add eight minutes to everyone else's journey.

Eight minutes to the journey of passengers alighting at St. P-I, but
compare that against the extra time taken for passengers who prefer
Stratford to get to StPI. To be fair, you'd need to compare likely
passenger preference with estimated delays on both options. Perhaps
even add in issues of station crowding and throughput -- I used e*
from StPI just before Xmas and it was pretty overcrowded just past
the gates in departures.

I'm not claiming an answer either way. But simply stating that everyones
journey is +8 minutes slower isn't right. For myself, at the moment, I'd
prefer the old slower times from Waterloo than faster ones from StPi or
Stratford. From my front door to Paris Thingy du Nord, that would be
easier and probably take about the same time.

#Paul


A well put point. The counter to this argument would be to say that people
would be able to access Eurostar services from Stratford, they'd just need
to use the Southeastern high-speed service to get to Ebbsfleet or St. P and
change. Of course that would then come back round to your argument about it
being less convenient for some people. It's all about the potential market
of travellers from Stratford Int'l really - if it is big enough, then some
Eurostar trains will surely stop there I would have thought.