On 29 Jan, 17:36, "Paul Scott" wrote:

"Paul Terry" wrote:

In message , Paul Terry
writes

http://www.southeastern2009.co.uk/index.php/highspeed

No mention of Eurostar transfer at Stratford ...

And, following up my own post, SouthEastern's 2009 route map on that same
site marks their only Eurostar interchanges as St Pancras, Ebbsfleet and
Ashford.

Stratford International is marked only as an interchange for DLR and LU.
Not that that rules out the possibility ... but it may happen only for a
few weeks in the summer of 2012!

I had heard the opposite - that IF Eurostar were calling at Stratford
International by then, their service would be suspended for the duration of
the games, and the Eurostar platforms temporarily altered for use by the
395s [aka the Olympic Javelin service]...


That indeed is the plan - there will be *no* Southeastern high-speed
or Eurostar services (if indeed they ever call) calling at Stratford
Int'l during the period of the Games (I think it'd be the two weeks
plus some time either side). During that time you'll *only* be able to
catch the Javelin service from Stratford Int'l which will call at
Ebbsfleet and St. Pancras.

"Mizter T" wrote in message
...

...... During that time you'll *only* be able to
catch the Javelin service from Stratford Int'l which will call at
Ebbsfleet and St. Pancras.

Run by the local Olympic Games escape commitee then?

:-)

Paul

"Mizter T" wrote ...
Let's face it, if they really cared about individual passengers, they
wouldn't have invented Ebbsfleet at all, and they'd have kept Waterloo
International open (as, for years, they promised they would).
How do you figure that with regards to Ebbsfleet?

Assuming Waterloo Intl. was still open, and Ebbsfleet did not exist, who
would be saying "Hey, we need another huge station right around half a mile
from Northfleet"?

No-one, so far as I can see. All the Kentish folk could as easily get to
Ashford (just as they are now being told "You can as easily get to
Ebbsfleet").

And all the London folk could take public transport to W'Loo, St.P, Strtf;
How very green of them.

I remember thinking, when first heard of Ebbsfleet "Where The H___ did that
come from?".

Question never got properly answered; especially as Ebbsfleet International
is at Northfleet, while Ebbsfleet is in Thanet.

It's loopy, and a trick to serve M25 folk who should (and could) be taking
the train.

Granted, it'll be handy to get from StP to Northfleet to watch Ebbsfleet(!)
play football - else it's pretty pointless.
--

Andrew

"If A is success in life, then A = x + y + z.
Work is x; y is play; and z is keeping your mouth shut." ~ Albert Einstein

On 29 Jan, 16:38, Paul Terry wrote:

In message , Paul Terry
writes

http://www.southeastern2009.co.uk/index.php/highspeed

No mention of Eurostar transfer at Stratford ...

And, following up my own post, SouthEastern's 2009 route map on that
same site marks their only Eurostar interchanges as St Pancras,
Ebbsfleet and Ashford.


Though that is the *2009* route map, it doesn't mean it will be the
case forevermore. The SE high-speed trains will apparently stop at
Stratford Int'l from day one of the service in December, but Stratford
Int'l won't exactly be an ideal destination by then - it'll be in the
middle of a building site, the DLR extension isn't due to open until
mid-2010 (it could be finished early, but I'd wager it won't be ready
*that* early), and AIUI passengers will be ferried between Stratford
Int'l and the bus station at Stratford Regional by minibus. If
Eurostar did ever wish/ were ever made to stop their trains at
Stratford Int'l, they certainly wouldn't do so until the station was
no longer in the midst of a building site, or at least until it had
proper road access - and I think the main road access will be to the
west, off Waterden Road (currently inaccessible within the closed off
Olympic Park site).

Indeed I dare say that it may not be considered appropriate to stop
Eurostar trains at Stratford until after the Olympics are finished.

"Mizter T" wrote
Indeed I dare say that it may not be considered appropriate to stop
Eurostar trains at Stratford until after the Olympics are finished.

I suspect 'until after hell freezes over' would be the slight preference of
our friends at Eurostar, but they may be denied their preference!


--

Andrew

On Jan 29, 7:21*pm, "Andrew Heenan" wrote:
I remember thinking, when *first heard of Ebbsfleet "Where The H___ did that
come from?".

Question never got properly answered; especially as Ebbsfleet International
is at Northfleet, while Ebbsfleet is in Thanet.

It's loopy, and a trick to serve M25 folk who should (and could) be taking
the train.

Radial public transport in Surrey/Sussex/Kent is utterly rubbish.
Guildford to Gatwick is just about acceptable; but aside from that,
nearly everyone in S/S/K drives to Gatwick or Heathrow rather than
deal with the massive faff of local connections.

You might suggest that a new rail link should have worthy aspirations
of changing that behaviour, and encouraging people to take the slow
train from Redhill to Ashford rather than the convenient drive to
Ebbsfleet. The trouble is, passengers would disagree, and would go by
plane instead.

(that said, Ebbsfleet should've been properly integrated with
Northfleet station, and should certainly be made the southeastern
terminus for Crossrail).

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org

In message
, at
11:08:54 on Thu, 29 Jan 2009, Mizter T remarked:
That indeed is the plan - there will be *no* Southeastern high-speed
or Eurostar services (if indeed they ever call) calling at Stratford
Int'l during the period of the Games (I think it'd be the two weeks
plus some time either side).

Don't forget the Paralympics, which stretches the whole thing out a bit,
unless the special arrangements aren't need those weeks.

29th Aug-9th Sept (the games having started on 27th July).
--
Roland Perry

On 29 Jan, 21:25, Roland Perry wrote:

In message
, at
11:08:54 on Thu, 29 Jan 2009, Mizter T remarked:

That indeed is the plan - there will be *no* Southeastern high-speed
or Eurostar services (if indeed they ever call) calling at Stratford
Int'l during the period of the Games (I think it'd be the two weeks
plus some time either side).

Don't forget the Paralympics, which stretches the whole thing out a bit,
unless the special arrangements aren't need those weeks.

29th Aug-9th Sept (the games having started on 27th July).


I hadn't forgotten them, but I don't think the special Javelin
arrangements will apply then, the Paralympics being a somewhat less
high-profile event with fewer spectators (not to do it down or
anything - I approve fully of them - that's just the reality). Also,
what with it stretching into the beginning of September, the commuters
of Kent will likely want their class 395 trains back! Indeed I can
already foresee the complaints that they'll have them taken away for a
few weeks (at least two) - perhaps every SE high-speed season ticket
holder should be made to sign a memorandum of understanding that this
is the plan!

Obviously the special transport plans will encompass the Paralympics
as well, just in a slightly reduced form. Perhaps there will be extra
395 Javelin shuttle services during the day, with a reduced off-peak
Kent service to accommodate this. There's an enormous amount of
documentation on the London 2012 site so perhaps rather than guessing
I'll go and try to find out... ;-)

In message
, at
14:41:30 on Thu, 29 Jan 2009, Mizter T remarked:
the commuters of Kent will likely want their class 395 trains back!
Indeed I can already foresee the complaints that they'll have them
taken away for a few weeks (at least two)

I rather suspect that everyone not intimately connected with the running
of the games will be best off sat at home for that fortnight, and not
trying to swim against the various tides.
--
Roland Perry

On 30 Jan, 08:32, Roland Perry wrote:

In message
, at
14:41:30 on Thu, 29 Jan 2009, Mizter T remarked:

the commuters of Kent will likely want their class 395 trains back!
Indeed I can already foresee the complaints that they'll have them
taken away for a few weeks (at least two)

I rather suspect that everyone not intimately connected with the running
of the games will be best off sat at home for that fortnight, and not
trying to swim against the various tides.

I wouldn't say that spectators aren't "intimately connected with the
running of the games" but I don't think they'd do very well at all
sitting at home for that fortnight.

I understand broadly where you're coming from but I there'll be plenty
of stuff going on in London during those two weeks that will be
attracting the crowds, both Olympic events and associated happenings -
people will be coming into and travelling around London to get to
these places.

What is the case is that the transport plans are predicated on there
being fewer regular commuters - but this is hardly a ridiculous
presumption as that's always what happens during the summer. I
understand at least part of the expectation is that people who may
otherwise have gone off elsewhere on holiday will stay around in
London to watch the show.

What will be the case is that those who regularly make use of the Kent
high-speed service to get into London will find that it won't be
running at all during that fortnight (or however long i will be). If
they're coming into London for work or leisure they'll obviously have
to do so on the slower, 'classic' services. There will be moans, but
many will travel by slower 'classic' train anyway. And others in Kent
will make use of the park & ride arrangements at Ebbsfleet or possibly
arrive there by bus or coach for onward transport to Stratford and the
Olympic Park on the Javelin service.

I'm sure there'll be problems but I don't think there'll be transport
meltdown, especially if people are herded towards St. Pancras for the
Javelin service. It'll be interesting to see how people will be
dissuaded from using the Jubilee and Central lines to get to Stratford
from central London.