In article ,
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 14:39:11 on Sun, 1 Feb
2009, solar penguin remarked:
That's one thing that St Pancras only managed to get right with the
latest redevelopment, giving us that new basement-level shopping mall
and concourse, tucked nicely away from the trains.

It's only "tucked away" from the domestic trains because the latter have
been relegated to a windswept 1950's loo-wall structure built entirely
outside the original station, and a route-march from the rest of
humanity.

Windswept is good, given the diesel fumes.

On Sun, 1 Feb 2009 19:17:29 +0000, Paul Terry
wrote:

There are some nice features on the ground floor, but the overwhelming
impression is of just another shopping mall, which will probably go the
way of many such places in the current economic climate.

True. While retail can provide a useful facility in a station[1], it
shouldn't be its primary function. This is similarly one big reason
why I find that Schiphol is a vastly superior airport to Thiefrow or
Gatwick.

My favourite large station in the UK remains the new Manc Picc,
though, and it is for similar reasons to Euston, namely the large,
airy and practical yet heated concourse. Manc Picc gains, of course,
by having a nice trainshed as well. But I am less fond of most
stations where the trainshed and the concourse are one, because they
tend to be too cold or hot (depending on the time of year) and often
stink of diesel fumes. Manc Picc also loses points on the satellite
concourse for 13/14, though, which is often bloody freezing, and
because it often stinks of **** in the summer because of the
non-retention train toilets.

It is nice to see, talking of Manc Picc, that the plans for Kings
Cross appear to look very similar.

[1] It's a pity that M&S Food[2] seem to have an almost-monopoly on
station supermarkets, though. A small Tesco or Sainsbury's would be a
lot more useful for a "get a quick shop on the way home" type
diversion - which is why the latter is very welcome at Manc Picc.

[2] The issue I have with them isn't just price (though they are dear
for a lot of food items), rather that they have an almost non-existent
range of unprepared fresh vegetables, which by their very nature are
the sort of thing I want to buy during the week on the way to/from
work. My local Tesco Express, on the other hand, has quite a decent
range, but it'd be so much easier if I could just pick something up at
EUS.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

On Sun, 01 Feb 2009 20:30:00 GMT, Sarah Brown
wrote:

Windswept is good, given the diesel fumes.

A windswept concourse/waiting area is bad, though. The platform area
for EMT at St Pancras would be fine if it were properly enclosed with
doors through to the trains.

The platforms at Euston are hardly attractive, but the point is that
you don't spend very long there.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

On Sun, 01 Feb 2009 19:56:54 +0000, Arthur Figgis
wrote:

The last time I was playing "hunt the snorbans train" I was surprised to
find there are no ticket machines around the MML platforms, you have to
go downstairs.

If the logical conclusion of LM's proposed Watford shuttles (a
half-hourly through service to Snorbens Abbey from Euston) was ever to
occur (though infrastructure work would be needed for it), I wonder
how much business FCC would lose down the Euston Road by having a
better station environment and probably a less overcrowded train?

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

"Neil Williams" wrote in message
...

ITYM very effective station.

I agree. Euston isn't pretty but it's functional.

I would remove some of the retail units in the middle of the concourse
(which I believe is planned) but other than that there's not much wrong with
it.

--
David

On Sun, 1 Feb 2009 22:27:35 -0000, "David Morgan"
wrote:

I would remove some of the retail units in the middle of the concourse
(which I believe is planned)

It's already done. They've gone - the pillars are now exposed.

The ones that remain are two new ones on what would be the barrier
line if there was one (directly under the departure board). These, in
practice, don't seem to get in the way too much, and in some ways help
to separate flows and provide places for people to sit against if they
want to.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

"Neil Williams" wrote in message
...
It's already done. They've gone - the pillars are now exposed.

Neil

I look forward to seeing the changes next time I arrive at Euston.

--
David

On Sun, 1 Feb 2009, Tim Fenton wrote:

"lonelytraveller" wrote in
message
...

Zaha Hadid, IM Pei, Frank Gehry, even Richard Rogers, could produce a
stunning terminal
No. They could produce an eyesore. They've done that before.

Before advocating Zaha Hadid as an architect for any project, check out
the analysis done by a Real Firefighter (tm) on her Fire Station (in
Germany IIRC).

I'd love to. Could you supply a URL, or even some slightly more specific
information?

If a building she designed isn't fire-safe, though, that's not really her
fault, it's her civil engineer's fault - it's their job to turn the
architect's high-level design into something that actually works, meets
the standards, etc, and if it can't be made to do so, to veto it. Of
course, if the civil engineer is incompetent, then that's really the
management's problem - and that's probably Ms Hadid aagin!

Not that i'm a big fan. I think her buildings are ugly and superficial -
like the output of most of the big-name architects of today. Still, at
least she's not Frank Gehry.

tom

--
Tubes are the foul subterranean entrails of the London beast, stuffed
with the day's foetid offerings. -- Tokugawa

On Sun, 1 Feb 2009, Neil Williams wrote:

On Sun, 1 Feb 2009 14:39:11 -0000, "solar penguin"
wrote:

That's one thing that St Pancras only managed to get right with the
latest redevelopment, giving us that new basement-level shopping mall
and concourse, tucked nicely away from the trains.

I find it claustrophobic compared with Euston's high-ceilinged Great
Hall, which is certainly deserving of the name.

Hmm. Big Hall, possiby. There's nothing very Great about it.

I wasn't impressed with St P, to be honest. It feels unfinished,
scruffy and poorly-designed. The trainshed is indeed impressive, but
that's all, and I don't go to stations to look at architecture, but to
catch trains.

Agreed. Euston is ugly and mediocre, but at least it's not actively bad in
the way that the new St Pancras is.

tom

--
Tubes are the foul subterranean entrails of the London beast, stuffed
with the day's foetid offerings. -- Tokugawa

In article ,
Tom Anderson wrote:
On Sun, 1 Feb 2009, Neil Williams wrote:

On Sun, 1 Feb 2009 14:39:11 -0000, "solar penguin"
wrote:

That's one thing that St Pancras only managed to get right with the
latest redevelopment, giving us that new basement-level shopping mall
and concourse, tucked nicely away from the trains.

I find it claustrophobic compared with Euston's high-ceilinged Great
Hall, which is certainly deserving of the name.

Hmm. Big Hall, possiby. There's nothing very Great about it.

?

In fact, boggle.

The Great Hall at Euston is a glorious space. With some of the retail
clutter cleared away (as I hear it has been - can't wait to see the
results) it should be the magnificent, uplifting space it should be.
Lovely bit of architecture - and the materials used were superb.

It's probably the best circulating area in any station I've come across,
with the probable exception of Grand Central in Washington. Shame they
both share the problem of dark platform spaces, but that doesn't make
either of the head-houses less magnificent.

I wasn't impressed with St P, to be honest. It feels unfinished,
scruffy and poorly-designed. The trainshed is indeed impressive, but
that's all, and I don't go to stations to look at architecture, but to
catch trains.

You are Sir Richard Moon, and I claim my five pounds..

--
Andy Breen ~ Not speaking on behalf of the University of Wales, Aberystwyth
Feng Shui: an ancient oriental art for extracting
money from the gullible (Martin Sinclair)