On 3 Feb, 15:54, Mizter T wrote:

On 3 Feb, 15:38, "Andrew Heenan" wrote:

"Martin Petrov" wrote ...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...ter-card-trans....
Dearie me, what a grade A plank.
Reduces dwell times for buses (massively) and reduces the opportunity
for drivers to pocket cash, stops you needing to fumble for change at
the ticket machine, and is just generally A GOOD IDEA.
But no, you think you're being watched by MI5. (like they've nothing
better to do.)

If I ran the buses, you'd be expected to touch in AND out on them too - much
better info for service planning.

Don't think that would work remotely well in London whatsoever. We had
a really interesting discussion about this back in January '08 in a
thread entitled "Oyster PAYG and differential bus fares" with...

[Sorry, the above post got sent a little prematurely! I shall
continue...]

....a fascinating contribution from Paul C who worked on Oyster back in
the day. The aforementioned thread can be read he
http://groups.google.co.uk/group/uk....a7d0d50c9d3b1/


Mind you, I was on a Bendie (73) one day; I hadn't touched in, though I
usually do, as I had my arms full of junk - I saw a seat and dived for it.

Bendie? Bendy, surely.


Ticket Inspector: * * You haven't touched in
Me: * * * * * * * * * * * *I didn't think I had to - it's a Gold Card
Ticket Inspector * *No, You don't *have* to.
Me: * * * * * * * * * * * {Quizzical look}
Ticket Inspector: * *But if you were kidnapped, we'd be able to trace your
last movements
Me: * * * * * * * * * * * *Thanks. (Wonders: was that really an inspector,
or was it a tin foil hat person in disguise?)

Interesting - never seen an inspector quiz a Travelcard or Bus Pass on
Oyster holding passenger before for not having touched-in.

"Mizter T" wrote ...
If I ran the buses, you'd be expected to touch in AND out on them too -
much
better info for service planning.
Don't think that would work remotely well in London whatsoever.

Probably too late now - but if it had been the rule from day 1, and there'd
have been the risk of overpaying if you didn't touch out (maybe with a point
at bus stops, like at Docklands stations), then it would have been "That's
how they work; live with it".

Would have been far, far more sensible.
--

Andrew

"If A is success in life, then A = x + y + z.
Work is x; y is play; and z is keeping your mouth shut." ~ Albert Einstein

Martin Petrov wrote:
No wonder the Guardian is losing readers every year.

Note - it's a "comment" in the newspaper, rather than an editorial or
some such. My posting it didn't have a Guardian bashing agenda, nor
should it be used for one (IMHO).

Quite right - it is a trifle harsh on the Guardian to object to the
entire newspaper on the basis of one commentator on their comment
website. The point of CiF is that you get all sorts of different
opinions; Thatcherite throatslashers, neocon Israeli apologists, PC
do-gooders, frothing feminists, eco-zealots... The great benefit of all
this is that it keeps a lot of morons happily flaming each other and off
the streets.

I comment there quite a lot, of course.

Tom

On 3 Feb, 15:57, "Andrew Heenan" wrote:

"Martin Petrov" wrote..

No wonder the Guardian is losing readers every year.
Note - it's a "comment" in the newspaper, rather than an editorial or
some such. My posting it didn't have a Guardian bashing agenda, nor
should it be used for one (IMHO).

If the Guardian didn't want to be associated with paranoid idiots, they
could have deleted it.

We all choose the company we keep, and others are entitled to make
judgements based on that.

For example, I fully realise that if any of my friends knew I was even
having this ridiculous discussion, they'd laugh at me - I know my defence of
"it passes the time" would probably be insufficient.

And that's my burden.

You, it seems, are the Guardian's burden. Their choice. That's what civil
liberties is all about; choice. No need to defend their suicidal stupidity.
If they want to be laughed off the planet, who are we to knock that
editorial policy?

???

Anyway I think you'll find it's actually a comment piece that's just
on their 'Comment is free' website as opposed to being in their
newspaper (which I bought this morning) - the whole idea of which is
intended to provoke debate, which I believe it does fairly well but
it's not something I'm going to spend my time getting immersed in. And
since when does a newspaper have to stand by the opinion of those who
contribute pieces for it?

And Andrew, people might also make judgements based on the ease on
which others dispatch judgements on all and sundry in the world as
well!

"Mizter T" wrote ...
a really interesting discussion about this back in January '08 in a
thread entitled "Oyster PAYG and differential bus fares" with...
...a fascinating contribution from Paul C who worked on Oyster
back in the day. The aforementioned thread can be read he
http://groups.google.co.uk/group/uk....a7d0d50c9d3b1/

Interesting, but I was suggesting a system more like DLR than Singapore /
Honkers. as I say, probably too late now, but a missed opportunity.

Mind you, there's an argument to say why not have all buses use all exits
and all use touch points (no cash fares at all) - quicker loading/unloading,
but you'd need even more inspectors.

I understand that many European systems have punch tickets and no fare
collection at all.
--

Andrew

"Tom Barry" wrote...
... The point of CiF is that you get all sorts of different opinions;
Thatcherite throatslashers, neocon Israeli apologists, PC do-gooders,
frothing feminists, eco-zealots... The great benefit of all this is that
it keeps a lot of morons happily flaming each other and off the streets. I
comment there quite a lot, of course.

Your secret is safe with us ;o)

"Mizter T" wrote ...
since when does a newspaper have to stand by the opinion of those who
contribute pieces for it?

Come on; that's a tad unfair. I'm not suggesting they stand by opinions;
it's about the level of debate. Those arguments would not inspire me to buy
the Guardian.

And Andrew, people might also make judgements based on the
ease on which others dispatch judgements on all and sundry in
the world as well!

I'd not have it any other way; That's what I love (and hate) about usenet;
you can say *exactly* what you think - and you then accept the consequences
of that.

My idea of free speech; I never judge people on the Internet - I judge their
words. There has to be an assumption they *intended* those words, but those
who spout twaddle have an absolute right to be told that they are spouting
twaddle.

And I'm more than happy to be told when I spout twaddle, which is much of
the time; I'm equally happy (for example) when a Boris fan insults me
because of my (usual) support for Ken-like policies. And I do my best to
give as good as I get. That's the way it works.

I come here to learn and share views (and occasionally to educate); I also
come here for entertainment.

Twaz ever thus. Anyone who mouths off on Usenet surely accepts that?
--

Andrew
http://www.wordskit.com/
http://www.flayme.com/

"If A is success in life, then A = x + y + z.
Work is x; y is play; and z is keeping your mouth shut." ~ Albert Einstein

On 3 Feb, 15:54, Mizter T wrote:
On 3 Feb, 15:38, "Andrew Heenan" wrote:

"Martin Petrov" wrote ...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...ter-card-trans....
Dearie me, what a grade A plank.
Reduces dwell times for buses (massively) and reduces the opportunity
for drivers to pocket cash, stops you needing to fumble for change at
the ticket machine, and is just generally A GOOD IDEA.
But no, you think you're being watched by MI5. (like they've nothing
better to do.)

If I ran the buses, you'd be expected to touch in AND out on them too - much
better info for service planning.

Don't think that would work remotely well in London whatsoever. We had
a really interesting discussion about this back in January '08 in a
thread entitled "Oyster PAYG and differential bus fares" with





Mind you, I was on a Bendie (73) one day; I hadn't touched in, though I
usually do, as I had my arms full of junk - I saw a seat and dived for it.

Ticket Inspector: * * You haven't touched in
Me: * * * * * * * * * * * *I didn't think I had to - it's a Gold Card
Ticket Inspector * *No, You don't *have* to.
Me: * * * * * * * * * * * {Quizzical look}
Ticket Inspector: * *But if you were kidnapped, we'd be able to trace your
last movements
Me: * * * * * * * * * * * *Thanks. (Wonders: was that really an inspector,
or was it a tin foil hat person in disguise?)

I also wonder what Guardian Man has to fear; as well as giving honest men
nightmares (as if!), Oyster can help in catching crims. And has done. Oyster
and cameras are a great combination. Did I say CAMERAS? Oh my God! Cameras!
Closed circuit! MI5/6/7 ... 43

And, like the bendies, the advantages of Oyster would only be visible after
it was banned - thousands more ticket office *jobs in a difficult time - but
fares raised to cover them; much slower buses (imagine the 38/73 congestion
at Angel every morning as drivers have to look at every ticket).

No wonder the Guardian is losing readers every year.

--
Andrew

"When 'Do no Evil' has been understood, then learn the harder, braver rule,
Do Good." ~ *Arthur Guiterman- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The key would have been that the reader on a bus doesn't currently
know where the bus is, so it wouldn't give any journey information.

On Tue, 3 Feb 2009, Martin Petrov wrote:

No wonder the Guardian is losing readers every year.

Note - it's a "comment" in the newspaper, rather than an editorial or
some such.

Weeelll, not quite. The writers/bloggers/whatever on Comment is Free are
essentially columnists - they're published online, rather than on paper,
but they're selected, paid and edited by the Guardian. In this particular
case, Nigel Willmott is also the real paper's letters editor (he also
appears to be a major Acorn Archimedes nerd - good man!). I don't think
you can assume anything he says is the Graun's official party line, but
the paper is ultimately responsible for his output.

Mind you, their general policy on CiF does seem to be to encourage the
writing of brain-shatteringly absurd pieces (usually from some kind of
caricatured hard-left/progressive position), presumably so that the
ensuing storm of controversy will attract page views.

tom

--
Tristan Tzara offered to create a poem on the spot by pulling words at
random from a hat. A riot ensued and Andre Breton expelled Tzara from
the movement.

On Tue, 3 Feb 2009, Andrew Heenan wrote:

Ticket Inspector: You haven't touched in
Me: I didn't think I had to - it's a Gold Card
Ticket Inspector No, You don't *have* to.
Me: {Quizzical look}
Ticket Inspector: But if you were kidnapped, we'd be able to trace your
last movements

!!!

Me: Thanks. (Wonders: was that really an inspector,
or was it a tin foil hat person in disguise?)

And why would you think that, eh? Clearly, you're trying to make me think
that i'm surrounded by paranoids, aren't you? AREN'T YOU?

tom

--
Tristan Tzara offered to create a poem on the spot by pulling words at
random from a hat. A riot ensued and Andre Breton expelled Tzara from
the movement.