"Tom Barry" wrote...
Andrew Heenan wrote:
"Tom Barry" wrote...
... The point of CiF is that you get all sorts of different opinions;
Thatcherite throatslashers, neocon Israeli apologists, PC do-gooders,
frothing feminists, eco-zealots... The great benefit of all this is
that it keeps a lot of morons happily flaming each other and off the
streets. I comment there quite a lot, of course.
Your secret is safe with us ;o)
I am Andrew Gilligan, and so's my wife.

At last count, London had a population of 7.9 million, 0.65 million of whom
were (or had been at some point) Andrew Giliagn.

In fact, one reason the Evening Standard has had to sell out to a Russion
zillionaire, is their huge wage bill - informed sources tell me that they
have 3,498 Andrew Gillian's on their books.

The Mayor's office employs nearly 27,952 more (according to a rumour I just
started). The rest are unemployed, and their immigrant status is under
investigation.

And Marks & Spencer ("Your S&M") is only making a profit due to high sales
of socks for Andrew Gillington sock puppets.

*I'm* Andrew Gillihgan - I just have trouble spelling it.
--
Andrew

PS - Isn't it weird that a man who was a national hero after the Dr. David
Kelly witch hunt has become a national joke?

Back to those choices we all make, I guess ;o)

"Mizter T" wrote ...
Just so long as you know that just because an outlandish
comment you may have made wasn't challenged doesn't
mean it is unchallengeable! ;-)

Fair point; In fact, I don't see some challenges to my points, because the
other joy of usenet is the killfile; Once a poster has convinced me they are
racist / overly pedantic / just plain nasty / think they own the group / , I
simply cease seeing their posts. So if they did (Heaven forbid) come up with
a constructive criticism, I'd probably never get to know. And they are
spared the tedium of me pointing out their shortcomings, too! Many, of
course, will have killfiled me, which is very sensible of them.
Frighteningly so, in fact!

Point is, usenet has no moderation, and so you have to decide what suits
*you* and arrange things accordingly.

I do attempt to distinguish between the innocent/ naive / ill informed and
the arrogant / stupid / ignorant, and I think we all have some kind of a
'duty' not to pick on folk who've done nothing wrong; that still leaves
plenty who have, and my pet hates are the bullies who think they own the
place - they are ALWAYS fair game, and I find it hard to resist that
temptation.

And then of course, there are the the sensible, reasonable, intelligent
folk!
God Bless 'em!

On Tue, 3 Feb 2009, Mizter T wrote:

And Andrew, people might also make judgements based on the ease on which
others dispatch judgements on all and sundry in the world as well!

Some have already done so.

tom

--
Tristan Tzara offered to create a poem on the spot by pulling words at
random from a hat. A riot ensued and Andre Breton expelled Tzara from
the movement.

In message
, at
07:42:55 on Tue, 3 Feb 2009, Mizter T remarked:
Could you elaborate on where you've been waved through "waved through
by station staff because the machine is not working properly"? Did you
check if the Oyster reader on the gates was active? It almost
certainly would have been.

It happened to me at Heathrow in October, but I did insist on finding a
pad, which was taped off at the time.

Later it transpired they were doing a "test" to see what happened. Shame
about the people who potentially got a surcharge.
--
Roland Perry

On Feb 3, 5:29*pm, Mizter T wrote:
On 3 Feb, 16:31, MIG wrote:





On 3 Feb, 15:54, Mizter T wrote:

On 3 Feb, 15:38, "Andrew Heenan" wrote:

(snip)

Mind you, I was on a Bendie (73) one day; I hadn't touched in, though I
usually do, as I had my arms full of junk - I saw a seat and dived for it.

Ticket Inspector: * * You haven't touched in
Me: * * * * * * * * * * * *I didn't think I had to - it's a Gold Card
Ticket Inspector * *No, You don't *have* to.
Me: * * * * * * * * * * * {Quizzical look}
Ticket Inspector: * *But if you were kidnapped, we'd be able to trace your
last movements
Me: * * * * * * * * * * * *Thanks. (Wonders: was that really an inspector,
or was it a tin foil hat person in disguise?)

I also wonder what Guardian Man has to fear; as well as giving honest men
nightmares (as if!), Oyster can help in catching crims. And has done. Oyster
and cameras are a great combination. Did I say CAMERAS? Oh my God! Cameras!
Closed circuit! MI5/6/7 ... 43
[...]

The key would have been that the reader on a bus doesn't currently
know where the bus is, so it wouldn't give any journey information.

?

The reader stores the times of cards being touched-in, this can be
tallied with the CCTV - though both systems need to have the right
time set on them. Also, I think the bus readers possibly do have some
idea of where on the route they are.-

I was referring to the bit about "info for service planning". (If
this really was done by trawling through CCTV, the Oyster touching
wouldn't add anything.)

But I think you were referring to the spying/catching aspect, which I
didn't mean.

On Tue, Feb 03, 2009 at 06:15:12AM -0800, Martin Petrov wrote:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...ansport-london

Reduces dwell times for buses (massively)

No it doesn't. It's requiring that everyone have a ticket before they
get on the bus that does that. Doesn't matter whether it's Oyster, a
paper travelcard, or a ticket bought at a roadside ticket machine.

drivers to pocket cash

See above.

stops you needing to fumble for change at
the ticket machine

No, instead you have to hunt high and low for somewhere to sell you the
damned thing in the first place, and then fight the TfL bureaucracy and
their expensive phone lines to get your refunds when they screw up - if
you realise that you were ripped off in the first place.

But no, you think you're being watched by MI5. (like they've nothing
better to do.)

I'm not worried about MI5 so much as I am by bent coppers and bent TfL
employees who have access to the database and sell info to, eg, private
dicks, divorce lawyers, and other organised criminals. Bent coppers do
that all the time with the supposedly secure police national computer.

--
David Cantrell | Reality Engineer, Ministry of Information

Lesbian bigots try to put finger in linguistic dyke:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7376919.stm

On Tue, Feb 03, 2009 at 07:49:35AM -0800, Mizter T wrote:

Where it is and isn't accepted is detailed he
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/oysteronline/5823.aspx

Gosh, and that URL is so easy to remember and is so easy to read when
I'm at a station, away from a computer!

Even the posters at stations saying where Oyster is and is not valid are
hopelessly confusing. Thameslink's ones are great, they say something
like "Oyster is only valid at these stations" and then show you a route
diagram with bits of it in different colours. It's not at all clear
without close study what the colours mean and hence where Oyster is
valid.

--
David Cantrell | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david

It wouldn't hurt to think like a serial killer every so often.
Purely for purposes of prevention, of course.

On 4 Feb, 13:08, David Cantrell wrote:

On Tue, Feb 03, 2009 at 07:49:35AM -0800, Mizter T wrote:
Where it is and isn't accepted is detailed he
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/oysteronline/5823.aspx

Gosh, and that URL is so easy to remember and is so easy to read when
I'm at a station, away from a computer!

Even the posters at stations saying where Oyster is and is not valid are
hopelessly confusing. Thameslink's ones are great, they say something
like "Oyster is only valid at these stations" and then show you a route
diagram with bits of it in different colours. It's not at all clear
without close study what the colours mean and hence where Oyster is
valid.


There are posters and leaflets around and about at NR stations that
show the map of where Oyster PAYG can be used on National Rail -
that's the same map that's linked to on the above page, or here's a
direct link (PDF):
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloa...ional-rail.pdf

Note that the map, and the leaflets and posters are produced by ATOC
and it is thus up to TOCs to display the poster and distribute the
leaflet at their stations (though I think the leaflet is distributed
at some LU stations too).

TfL did mass produce a generic "Oyster PAYG is *not* valid from this
station" poster which many TOCs did manage to put up at their
stations.

Essentially Oyster PAYG is not valid on NR south of the river, which
is easy enough to remember. North of the river the situation is a bit
more complicated. If in doubt, it's best to presume it isn't valid.

Not ideal of course, but better that it is a bit valid rather than not
being valid at all. My Hackney dwelling friends feel like they're on
the Tube now, what with the v. frequent services from Hackney Downs.
Well, sort of - the station's still very shabby.

On 4 Feb, 13:01, David Cantrell wrote:

On Tue, Feb 03, 2009 at 06:15:12AM -0800, Martin Petrov wrote:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...ter-card-trans...

Reduces dwell times for buses (massively)

No it doesn't. *It's requiring that everyone have a ticket before they
get on the bus that does that. *Doesn't matter whether it's Oyster, a
paper travelcard, or a ticket bought at a roadside ticket machine.

Wrong - apart from bendy buses and the central London pay-before-you-
board area, you are *not* required to have a ticket before you board a
London bus - fact. But Oyster has *massively* increased the number of
people who have a ticket before they board - true, this has been done
in part through the carrot and stick of differential prices between
cash fares and Oyster PAYG fares, but it has also worked - the number
of people paying cash for a bus fare these days is pretty minimal and
I find it out of the ordinary when someone does.


drivers to pocket cash

See above.

Again, wrong - though there are other methods in place to minimise the
possibility of this happening.


* * * * * * * * * * * *stops you needing to fumble for change at
the ticket machine

No, instead you have to hunt high and low for somewhere to sell you the
damned thing in the first place, and then fight the TfL bureaucracy and
their expensive phone lines to get your refunds when they screw up - if
you realise that you were ripped off in the first place.

There has been a great increase lately in the number of shops that
sell and top-up Oyster cards. You can also order them online, and set
then up for auto-topup.

Issues with Oyster overcharging through no fault of the user are rare.


But no, you think you're being watched by MI5. (like they've nothing
better to do.)

I'm not worried about MI5 so much as I am by bent coppers and bent TfL
employees who have access to the database and sell info to, eg, private
dicks, divorce lawyers, and other organised criminals. *Bent coppers do
that all the time with the supposedly secure police national computer.


The police do not have direct access to the Oyster database - they
need to specifically send a request to TfL for that. This is what TfL
says about the process:

---quote---
TfL's disclosure of personal information is carried out in accordance
with the requirements of the Data Protection Act 1998 and assessed on
a case by case basis. All police requests must be submitted in
accordance with guidance from the Association of Chief Police Officers
and are coordinated by TfL's Information Access and Compliance Team.
---/quote---

And this is what TfL say regarding who has access to the database:

---quote---
Please note that a limited number of authorised individuals within TfL
can access Oyster card data and no external organisations have direct
access to the data. There are no bulk disclosures of personal data to
any public sector or commercial organisations.
---/quote---


Both those quotes are taken from the response to a letter sent to
Oyster customer services by 'Coofer Cat' aka a gent called Richard
Bolton. TfL dealt with the request under the Freedom of Information
Act - the questions and responses can be read on his webpage he
http://www.coofercat.com/wiki/OysterCardRFI

I absolutely agree that it is right to be vigilant about these matters
- as you say, both the PNC and also the DVLA database have a history
of being rather leaky, as do the databases of telecoms companies and
other utilities. This is something that interests me - thus far I
haven't seen, read or heard of anything that I consider a cause for
alarm in this regard.

Might MI5 or GCHQ have a back-door into the system, or perhaps just an
insider? I guess it's possible. However one might imagine that those
with serious mischief in mind would likely avoid using an Oyster card
anyway.

In message
, at
06:43:38 on Wed, 4 Feb 2009, Mizter T remarked:
Please note that a limited number of authorised individuals within TfL
can access Oyster card data and no external organisations have direct
access to the data.

Yet, but one more terrorist outrage and it will go the way of Congestion
Charging, with all the data available to the police.
--
Roland Perry