On Wed, Feb 04, 2009 at 07:56:09PM +0000, Paul Corfield wrote:

I think it will depend entirely on who is in power if such an event
happens. Without making political points I might like to imagine that
the politicians might just take pause and look at what is already on the
statute book before paying too much heed to the hysterical demands of a
tabloid press baron or two.

I like to think that. But a cursory glance at the history books shows
that that's really very unlikely, no matter who's in power.

--
David Cantrell | top google result for "topless karaoke murders"

" In My Egotistical Opinion, most people's ... programs should be
indented six feet downward and covered with dirt. "
--Blair P. Houghton

On Wed, Feb 04, 2009 at 09:43:43AM -0800, Mizter T wrote:

Perhaps they do, perhaps it is. Though if there is some kind of
secretive access to the database it would be being done by GCHQ as
opposed to the police, and they would basically only be interested in
'terrorists' and the like (the question would then be whether they'd
also be interested in tracking e.g. a militant organiser of mass
strikes - I'd think it unlikely).

I'd think it very likely - it's fairly well-known by now that the
various more secretive organs of the state (special branch, gchq,
MIwhatever etc) were interested in the organisers of the miners' strikes
under the thatcher regime, in political activities of students, and in
both tracking and disrupting peaceful protesters since forever. And
it's reasonable to suppose that this has carried on up to the present
day.

--
David Cantrell | Official London Perl Mongers Bad Influence

Hail Caesar! Those about to vi ^[ you!

On Thu, Feb 05, 2009 at 05:13:06AM -0800, Mizter T wrote:

A significant part of the objections to bendy buses is that they are
seen as 'free buses'

Most of the objections I've seen are that they are not suitable for the
roads on which they run. Although the most obvious example I know of
(Bloomsbury St / New Oxford St) seems to have neeb fixed by re-routing
some of the traffic to avoid it. eg, the 38 now goes down Shaftesbury
Avenue instead.

At least in the immediate future... how fare collection will work on
the new 'Boris buses' (the new Routemasters) is very unclear at the
moment. There are calls to bring back conductors, but given the very
high proportion of passengers these days who have pre-paid tickets
(whether Oyster PAYG, Travelcards or bus passes) it is perhaps
questionable whether that would be a of use of resources.

When I was commuting on Routemasters before the 38 went bendy, almost
everyone had pre-paid tickets too. The conductor didn't appear to take
a great deal of cash.

--
David Cantrell | London Perl Mongers Deputy Chief Heretic

EIN KIRCHE! EIN KREDO! EIN PAPST!

In article ,
(David Cantrell) wrote:

Most of the objections I've seen are that they are not suitable for the
roads on which they run. Although the most obvious example I know of
(Bloomsbury St / New Oxford St) seems to have neeb fixed by re-routing
some of the traffic to avoid it. eg, the 38 now goes down Shaftesbury
Avenue instead.

I thought that was just a temporary arrangement during road works? The 14
is using Shaftesbury Avenue (from Bloomsbury St) too at present.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On 10 Feb, 00:06, wrote:
I thought that was just a temporary arrangement during road works?

It is. It's just the road works happen to be the complete rebuilding
of TCR station, and the temporary diversion is expected to last for 7
years.

U

On Mon, Feb 09, 2009 at 06:06:14PM -0600, wrote:
In article ,
(David Cantrell) wrote:
Most of the objections I've seen are that they are not suitable for the
roads on which they run. Although the most obvious example I know of
(Bloomsbury St / New Oxford St) seems to have neeb fixed by re-routing
some of the traffic to avoid it. eg, the 38 now goes down Shaftesbury
Avenue instead.
I thought that was just a temporary arrangement during road works? The 14
is using Shaftesbury Avenue (from Bloomsbury St) too at present.

Temporary for the next four years, I think!

Or did I read TfL's website wrong? Anyway, it certainly works better
like this.

--
David Cantrell | Reality Engineer, Ministry of Information

What is the difference between hearing aliens through the
fillings in your teeth and hearing Jesus in your heart?

In article
,
(Mr Thant) wrote:

On 10 Feb, 00:06, wrote:
I thought that was just a temporary arrangement during road works?

It is. It's just the road works happen to be the complete rebuilding
of TCR station, and the temporary diversion is expected to last for 7
years.

Ah! I wondered why they had put up a proper bus stop ad extra bit of bus
lane in the stretch beyond Bloomsbury St, the bus stop during diversions
due to water main works. I didn't realise they had started on the TCR
rebuild.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On 10 Feb, 13:53, wrote:

In article
,
(Mr Thant) wrote:

On 10 Feb, 00:06, wrote:
I thought that was just a temporary arrangement during road works?

It is. It's just the road works happen to be the complete rebuilding
of TCR station, and the temporary diversion is expected to last for 7
years.

Ah! I wondered why they had put up a proper bus stop ad extra bit of bus
lane in the stretch beyond Bloomsbury St, the bus stop during diversions
due to water main works. I didn't realise they had started on the TCR
rebuild.


Began in January - see the timeline on the TfL website he
http://tinyurl.com/d2mk4n

'Proper' (visible) demolition begins in the spring.

Also see the "Changes to travel" page here which details the bus
changes:
http://tinyurl.com/alnblu

On 10 Feb, 20:19, Paul Corfield wrote:

On Tue, 10 Feb 2009 12:26:52 +0000, David Cantrell

(snip)

Temporary for the next four years, I think!

Seven years - as explained by Mr Thant. I am not convinced the routes
will resume their previous routing after this period of time anyway.

Agreed - it certainly shouldn't be taken as a given things will go
back to how they were. This provides a good opportunity for bus routes
to be rejigged around that area. I've heard of a few murmurs of
discontent that the 176 no longer gets as far as Oxford Circus and now
terminates at TCR - perhaps this stretch might make a come back,
though it is one less bus route along a busy bit of road.


Or did I read TfL's website wrong? *Anyway, it certainly works better
like this.

Not used any of the routes since they were diverted away from
Centrepoint.


Just for comparison's sake, has anyone got a PDF of the Tottenham
Court Rd bus spider map from before the changes? If so it'd be great
if you could email it to me and I'll stick it up on some webspace for
all to see.

On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 08:19:19PM +0000, Paul Corfield wrote:

Seven years - as explained by Mr Thant. I am not convinced the routes
will resume their previous routing after this period of time anyway.

I thought the idea was to have a pedestrian "piazza" eventually. How
that works out for buses heading north from Charing Cross Road and along
Tottenham Court Road, I'm not sure. Jink around the back of the Centre
Point tower? That seems like an awful bottleneck.

Not used any of the routes since they were diverted away from
Centrepoint.

38 is certainly running better westbound in the evening, and appears to
be better eastbound in the morning, as Andrew Borde St is now closed so
there's no snarl-up just south of St Giles Circus.

Incidentally, who's Andrew Borde?

--
David Cantrell | Cake Smuggler Extraordinaire

I caught myself pulling grey hairs out of my beard.
I'm definitely not going grey, but I am going vain.