Ii I get on a bus & the route is terminates before I get to my
destination, should I have to pass my card against the oyster card on
the 2nd bus to complete my journey ?

"martyn dawe" wrote...
Ii I get on a bus & the route is terminates before I get to my
destination, should I have to pass my card against the oyster card on
the 2nd bus to complete my journey ?

Yes - unless the first driver gave you a credit note to show the second
driver or the revenue inspector
--

Andrew

"She plays the tuba.
It is the only instrument capable
of imitating a distress call.".

On 3 Feb, 20:51, martyn dawe wrote:
If I get on a bus & the route is terminates before I get to my
destination, should I have to pass my card against the oyster card on
the 2nd bus to complete my journey ?

You should go to the driver of the first bus and request a "transfer
ticket". Note that this will only be issued if that particular bus has
been cut short during the course of its journey - if the bus was
always going to terminate short, i.e. if that was indicated on the
destination blind (and on the iBus system within), then you are not
entitled to a transfer ticket (coz the bus has got you as far as it
advertised it would).

In my experience bus drivers are not very forthcoming about transfer
tickets, with a few splendid exceptions when they've got on the PA
system or even just yelled and told passengers to come and see them if
they needed a transfer ticket.

The exact same rules apply on bendy buses, however in practice I don't
think that the roving inspectors who board bendy buses would have a
problem with someone jumping on the next bus (as long as it was the
same route number) if their bendy bus suddenly terminated short if
they didn't have a transfer ticket and only held their original ticket
from a roadside machine or Oyster card validated on the original bus.

(I'm not even sure that the simple blue calculator-esque handheld
Oyster reader devices interrogate the card for vehicle specific
information - it might just be route and direction specific.)

On Feb 3, 9:28�pm, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Tue, 03 Feb 2009 20:51:52 +0000, martyn dawe

wrote:
Ii I get on a bus & the route is terminates before I get to my
destination, should I have to pass my card against the oyster card on
the 2nd bus to complete my journey ?

If the bus was always going to a destination short of where you were
going [1] then yes you do pay / swipe a second time. This is because it
was your decision to board a bus that was not going as far as you wanted
it to go.

If the bus is turned short while you are on it and you boarded with the
intention of just making one through trip then either you should be
transferred over to the following bus or be given a transfer note for
the driver on the next bus.

[1] i.e. it was clearly shown on the destination blind
--
Paul C

The last time I tried asking for a transfer credit note, as my bus was
short-terminated at Tottenham Court Road, the driver either didn't
know what I was talking about or thought I was just being "difficult".
When I threatened not to leave the bus until she issued me with one,
she threatened to call the Police!

Such is the level of poor training now widespread. I just couldn't be
bothered after a long day to stay and argue the point. In the end, I
just got off and went to the bus immediately behind, muttered
something about the bus ahead stopping short and the driver waved me
through!

On a previous occasion, when a Routemaster (route 11) was terminated
short, late at night at Chelsea World's End, I refused to get off
until the conductor gave me said note, and the bus was half way down
Beaufort Street whilst we continued the argument. Eventually, she
stopped the bus, and walked the whole way back with me to King's Road
and saw me onto a following 11, which she hailed down!

Marc.

On 3 Feb, 21:28, Paul Corfield wrote:

On Tue, 03 Feb 2009 20:51:52 +0000, martyn dawe
wrote:
If I get on a bus & the route is terminates before I get to my
destination, should I have to pass my card against the oyster card on
the 2nd bus to complete my journey ?

If the bus was always going to a destination short of where you were
going [1] then yes you do pay / swipe a second time. This is because it
was your decision to board a bus that was not going as far as you wanted
it to go.

If the bus is turned short while you are on it and you boarded with the
intention of just making one through trip then either you should be
transferred over to the following bus or be given a transfer note for
the driver on the next bus.

[1] i.e. it was clearly shown on the destination blind


The definitive answer, rather better than my verbose and inerudite
attempt upthread!

A follow on question - is the transfer ticket solely for use on that
specific route, or is there any chance of flexibility or driver
discretion coming into play?

A example - I was on a northbound 68 that terminated at the bottom of
Southampton Row (just past Holborn station). I was in a bit of a rush
to get to Euston, the normal end point of the 68 and this was indeed
shown on the destination blind. It got turned short at Southampton
Row, whereupon I got off after failing to go and ask for a transfer
ticket. I then tried getting on the next bus, a 168 I think, by
explaining the situation to the driver (the dead 68 was still sat at
the bus stop) - they seemed perfectly willing to take me *if* I'd had
a transfer ticket, which I did not have, so I ended up legging it up
to Euston.

I may have got the bus numbers mixed up, but the second bus was
definitely a different route to the first. If I'd had a transfer
ticket, would the driver of the second bus driver technically have
been acting within the rules to have let me on, or indeed would they
have been under an obligation to do so - the latter seems rather
unlikely, although I had after all paid for a journey all the way to
Euston.

wrote :
If the bus is turned short while you are on it and you boarded with the
intention of just making one through trip then either you should be
transferred over to the following bus or be given a transfer note for
the driver on the next bus.

Sometimes they don't want to give you a transfer note, because their
stopping short is unofficial (I'm talking about evenings and weekends
here!). In one case, a fellow passenger called on us all to demand notes,
and the driver decided to take us though to our destination after all - I
think he realised the risk of being disciplined plus the time spent sorting
out a line of passengers wouldn't have made his extended break worth while.
Fine for me, I didn't need a note anyway, though my companion did.

That almost compensated me for the time the driver limped down the route,
allowing three buses to overtake, then turned short just three stops short
of the destination leaving us without a bus visible on the countdown
display!
--

Andrew

On 3 Feb, 21:56, " wrote:

On Feb 3, 9:28 pm, Paul Corfield wrote:

On Tue, 03 Feb 2009 20:51:52 +0000, martyn dawe

wrote:
Ii I get on a bus & the route is terminates before I get to my
destination, should I have to pass my card against the oyster card on
the 2nd bus to complete my journey ?

If the bus was always going to a destination short of where you were
going [1] then yes you do pay / swipe a second time. This is because it
was your decision to board a bus that was not going as far as you wanted
it to go.

If the bus is turned short while you are on it and you boarded with the
intention of just making one through trip then either you should be
transferred over to the following bus or be given a transfer note for
the driver on the next bus.

[1] i.e. it was clearly shown on the destination blind

The last time I tried asking for a transfer credit note, as my bus was
short-terminated at Tottenham Court Road, the driver either didn't
know what I was talking about or thought I was just being "difficult".
When I threatened not to leave the bus until she issued me with one,
she threatened to call the Police!

I do get the impression that issuing transfer tickets doesn't feature
highly in day to day operations, and when buses get turned short they
generally don't get a mention. I dare say that this is because it
takes time for a driver to issue them, which erodes into the time
saved that results from the bus being turned short.


Such is the level of poor training now widespread. I just couldn't be
bothered after a long day to stay and argue the point. In the end, I
just got off and went to the bus immediately behind, muttered
something about the bus ahead stopping short and the driver waved me
through!

Seen this happen a number of times - the presence of several people
all with the same story seems to be convincing enough for most
drivers.


On a previous occasion, when a Routemaster (route 11) was terminated
short, late at night at Chelsea World's End, I refused to get off
until the conductor gave me said note, and the bus was half way down
Beaufort Street whilst we continued the argument. Eventually, she
stopped the bus, and walked the whole way back with me to King's Road
and saw me onto a following 11, which she hailed down!

Ha! Just doing your duties as a fully paid up member of the awkward
squad then ;-)

I have to say that in that instance I'd have just got on the next bus
clasping my ticket as issued on the previous bus and explained the
situation to the conductor.

On Feb 3, 10:01*pm, Mizter T wrote:
On 3 Feb, 21:28, Paul Corfield wrote:





On Tue, 03 Feb 2009 20:51:52 +0000, martyn dawe
wrote:
If I get on a bus & the route is terminates before I get to my
destination, should I have to pass my card against the oyster card on
the 2nd bus to complete my journey ?

If the bus was always going to a destination short of where you were
going [1] then yes you do pay / swipe a second time. This is because it
was your decision to board a bus that was not going as far as you wanted
it to go.

If the bus is turned short while you are on it and you boarded with the
intention of just making one through trip then either you should be
transferred over to the following bus or be given a transfer note for
the driver on the next bus.

[1] i.e. it was clearly shown on the destination blind

The definitive answer, rather better than my verbose and inerudite
attempt upthread!

A follow on question - is the transfer ticket solely for use on that
specific route, or is there any chance of flexibility or driver
discretion coming into play?

A example - I was on a northbound 68 that terminated at the bottom of
Southampton Row (just past Holborn station). I was in a bit of a rush
to get to Euston, the normal end point of the 68 and this was indeed
shown on the destination blind. It got turned short at Southampton
Row, whereupon I got off after failing to go and ask for a transfer
ticket. I then tried getting on the next bus, a 168 I think, by
explaining the situation to the driver (the dead 68 was still sat at
the bus stop) - they seemed perfectly willing to take me *if* I'd had
a transfer ticket, which I did not have, so I ended up legging it up
to Euston.

I may have got the bus numbers mixed up, but the second bus was
definitely a different route to the first. If I'd had a transfer
ticket, would the driver of the second bus driver technically have
been acting within the rules to have let me on, or indeed would they
have been under an obligation to do so - the latter seems rather
unlikely, although I had after all paid for a journey all the way to
Euston.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

BUT ... we still don't seem to have had a definitive answer to whether
an inspector can tell which bus you touched in on, or just which route
and when.

Or is the transfer ticket only to show the driver of a straight bus,
who would expect you to do something when getting on? With a bendy
there might be no point.

On 3 Feb, 22:11, MIG wrote:

On Feb 3, 10:01*pm, Mizter T wrote:

On 3 Feb, 21:28, Paul Corfield wrote:

On Tue, 03 Feb 2009 20:51:52 +0000, martyn dawe
wrote:
If I get on a bus & the route is terminates before I get to my
destination, should I have to pass my card against the oyster card on
the 2nd bus to complete my journey ?

If the bus was always going to a destination short of where you were
going [1] then yes you do pay / swipe a second time. This is because it
was your decision to board a bus that was not going as far as you wanted
it to go.

If the bus is turned short while you are on it and you boarded with the
intention of just making one through trip then either you should be
transferred over to the following bus or be given a transfer note for
the driver on the next bus.

[1] i.e. it was clearly shown on the destination blind

The definitive answer, rather better than my verbose and inerudite
attempt upthread!

A follow on question - is the transfer ticket solely for use on that
specific route, or is there any chance of flexibility or driver
discretion coming into play?

A example - I was on a northbound 68 that terminated at the bottom of
Southampton Row (just past Holborn station). I was in a bit of a rush
to get to Euston, the normal end point of the 68 and this was indeed
shown on the destination blind. It got turned short at Southampton
Row, whereupon I got off after failing to go and ask for a transfer
ticket. I then tried getting on the next bus, a 168 I think, by
explaining the situation to the driver (the dead 68 was still sat at
the bus stop) - they seemed perfectly willing to take me *if* I'd had
a transfer ticket, which I did not have, so I ended up legging it up
to Euston.

I may have got the bus numbers mixed up, but the second bus was
definitely a different route to the first. If I'd had a transfer
ticket, would the driver of the second bus driver technically have
been acting within the rules to have let me on, or indeed would they
have been under an obligation to do so - the latter seems rather
unlikely, although I had after all paid for a journey all the way to
Euston.

BUT ... we still don't seem to have had a definitive answer to whether
an inspector can tell which bus you touched in on, or just which route
and when.

Or is the transfer ticket only to show the driver of a straight bus,
who would expect you to do something when getting on? *With a bendy
there might be no point.


This talk of a straight bus befuddled me at first! I believe the
somewhat absurd term used in the business is 'rigid bus' - regular bus
or standard bus is what I'd say!

There is more than one type of handheld Oyster reader - there are
simple ones that are predominantly blue and look like a pocket
calculator, these have red and green lights that light up depending on
whether the card is properly validated, they also have a simple LCD
display and a numeric keypad. My guess is that these only provide
basic information and are set up to check whether or not an Oyster
card has been validated on the route that's being checked, perhaps
also the direction of travel too - but that is total guesswork.

There are also more advanced Oyster readers that look like handheld
PDAs - Tramlink ticket inspectors use these, as do conductors on
Routemasters (only the heritage ones now), but some RPIs also have
these. My understanding is that these can query the Oyster card for
much more detailed information - I would presume that would include
the particular vehicle (by that I mean actual bus) that the card was
validated on, plus the particular validator too. Whether these
elements are set up to be checked during a normal sweep of a bendy bus
is another matter, my contention is that they either wouldn't be or
that they wouldn't matter.