On 16 Feb, 17:40, wrote:

On 16 Feb, 17:17, Mizter T wrote:

Getting on to Oyster customer service centre about this might be a
good idea, as it could increase the chances of it being dealt with.
I'd actually be tempted to write a very short letter asking why
Shepherd's Bush (LO/ WLL) to Stratford journeys are being charged like
this.

The Oyster CSC contact details are he
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/contact/4417.a...Service_Centre

Mizter T,
I emailed Customer Services last Wednesday asking them about my
forthcoming journey on the Saturday and whether I would be entitled to
the z2-6 cap if travelling from Shepherd's Bush ( nll/wll/lo) and
thereby avoiding z1. Unfortunately, it was wishful thinking that *I
would get a reply by Saturday morning. However, I've sent them another
email regarding Saturday's journeys and asked if I am entitled to any
refund. Having not transgressed into z1 I personally feel that I do
have a good case, however, I fear that carefully worded rules /
conditions of travel in the *Oyster fares "handbook" will conspire
against me !


The crucial phrase is on page 5 of the TfL Fares and tickets booklet:
"Some journeys are defined as requiring travel via Zone 1 and will be
charged and capped accordingly, irrespective of the actual route
taken."

In other words, they've got their back covered on this issue!

My thinking was less about the possibility of getting you and others a
refund each time this happens, more about getting TfL to change the
system so it doesn't happen at all.

I'd think that until the upcoming comprehensive PAYG system upgrade
there will continue to be a problem about a Greenford to Stratford
journey. However, it seems to me that the problem of a Shepherd's Bush
(LO/ WLL) to Stratford journey being assumed to be via-z1 could be
rectified fairly easily.

However it couldn't be done overnight. I think it would have to be
included in the next set of data sent out as an update across the
Oyster system. The question is whether the next update is in fact the
major PAYG system upgrade (which AIUI is essentially being so the
whole system can cope with the start of Oyster PAYG acceptance across
NR in London).

Re the letter thing - I have this notion that letters sometimes
receive better consideration than electronic communications. However,
if you were to actually pursue a refund then this might get the wheels
turning faster.

That said, it might be a known issue and already on the list to be
dealt with. I must admit I'd be rather gobsmacked if they actually
replied to you and said this though!


----------
[1] TfL Fares and tickets booklet (PDF):
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloa...s-zones1-6.pdf

On 16 Feb, 17:56, wrote:
I think I would have just let you through!

By a curious coincidence, he did leave the gate momentarily unattended
shortly after that conversation.

Nice!

Mizter T,
I've been reading of a similar situation / journey in which the z2-6
cap was applied to a via Z1 journey

Ruislip (z5 met line) - Snaresbrook (z4 central line)

The journey / fare is listed as via z1.

However, the passenger went

Ruislip ---(met line) --- Finchley Rd (OOSI) Finchley Rd & Frognal
---(LO)-- Stratford --(cent line) -- Snaresbrook

and returned to Ruislip the same way. His fare for the journey was
capped at £2.80 ( previous z2-6 cap). £2-00 outward and £0.80 return.
So obviously the system DID recognise the fact that there was no
transgression into Z1 even though Ruislip - Snaresbrook is a via Z1
fare / journey.
Perhaps the trigger was the Finchley Rd + Frognal -- Snaresbrook
stretch which is a non z1 journey/ fare.
You will get charged the same single fare for this journey
irrespective of which route you take ( via z1 or via Finchley Rd &
Frognal) but the benefit of the cap comes in if your outward travel
and return is via the NLL line. It is clear that non z1 travel is
recognised by the system on this route.
TFL need to apply similar methods to our dilemma. Touching in at
Shepherd's Bush LO should alert the system that I am making a non z1
journey. That way Greenford - Stratford via Z1 OR via NLL/WLL will
still remain £2.20 off peak, but travelling exclusively via NLL/WLL
will allow for the z2-6 cap.

regards
cs

On Feb 16, 5:17*pm, Mizter T wrote:
MIG wrote:
On 16 Feb, 15:16, Mizter T wrote:
MIG wrote:

[big snip]

The thing about this is that the Shepherds Bushes seem to be treated
not as an outerchange but as a more-like-Stratford situation where
it's all one station. *The poster seems to have been charged for
travelling via the Central Line despite entering a building from which
it isn't possible to access the Central Line.

I absolutely understand what you're saying - however I wonder if this
is currently an inevitable by-product of OSIs/ outerchanges. I don't
know, that's just speculation, but it would provide an explanation.

If the Shepherds Bushes were set up as separate stations with an
outerchange, you'd think he'd be charged the non-zone 1 fare.

I'm just wondering whether that's possible - see above. Perhaps it is
and this situation is simply the result of sloppy programming. I don't
know enough about the machinations behind it to say, unfortunately.

Just done an interesting experiment on these lines with the TfL Fare
Finder.

Hackney Central/Hackney downs is an outerchange.

The Fare Finder price from Hackney Central to Lewisham is not priced
via zone 1.

The Fare Finder price from Hackney Downs to Lewisham is priced via
zone 1.

This suggests that despite being a valid outerchange for continuing
journeys (eg Cambridge Heath to Homerton*), the two outerchange
stations are treated differently with respect to journeys that start
there, presumably because if you enter Hackney Downs you can only
reach Lewisham via zone 1.

Good work MIG -

This behaviour was completely out of character m'lud ...