On Feb 25, 6:25*pm, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Tue, 24 Feb 2009 23:51:59 +0000, Barry Salter

wrote:
Neil Williams wrote:
Does anyone know why the 91 (southbound) was taken out of Euston bus
station? *Did it manage to save a vehicle by doing so? *If not, it
seems it could be a cause of unnecessary passenger confusion.

I understand an additional peak journey can operate in the peak
direction as a result of the change.

It coincided with a change of operator from First to Metroline
(operating out of Holloway garage) with an allocation of 19 vehicles,
and actually represents an *increase* of 4 vehicles (5 on Saturdays, 7
on Sundays).

Sorry but the allocation with First was 19 M-F, 18 Sat and 14 Sun. *The
info I have seen for Metroline is 19 MF, 19 Sat and 17 Sun so the scale
of increase is smaller that you've stated with none on MF.


I think the change may also have to do with congestion in the bus
station. Stop E at Euston is not in the best spot for services heading
south down Southampton Row, as the buses have to cross the buses
heading towards King's Cross. I think that it got especially bad after
the 59 was extended to King's Cross, as that was an extra route
getting in the way at the bus station.

I've noticed quite a thinning out of services that use the bus station
in the south or west bound direction over the years. I think partly
down to the bendy buses (73 used to come in) and partly due to more
frequent services on the remaining routes. Did the 168 ever serve the
bus station, or did it always stay on Eversholt Street?

On Wed, 25 Feb 2009 12:37:59 -0800 (PST), wrote:

I think the change may also have to do with congestion in the bus
station. Stop E at Euston is not in the best spot for services heading
south down Southampton Row, as the buses have to cross the buses
heading towards King's Cross. I think that it got especially bad after
the 59 was extended to King's Cross, as that was an extra route
getting in the way at the bus station.

The problem with the bus station is that the road where the 59 and 68
stop isn't wide enough for a bus to reach the stop if the ones waiting
haven't pulled right over. The kerb and stop could do with taking
back about 3'. That alone would improve flow massively.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

On Feb 25, 9:29*pm, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Wed, 25 Feb 2009 12:37:59 -0800 (PST), wrote:
On Feb 25, 6:25*pm, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Tue, 24 Feb 2009 23:51:59 +0000, Barry Salter

wrote:
Neil Williams wrote:
Does anyone know why the 91 (southbound) was taken out of Euston bus
station? *Did it manage to save a vehicle by doing so? *If not, it
seems it could be a cause of unnecessary passenger confusion.

I understand an additional peak journey can operate in the peak
direction as a result of the change.

It coincided with a change of operator from First to Metroline
(operating out of Holloway garage) with an allocation of 19 vehicles,
and actually represents an *increase* of 4 vehicles (5 on Saturdays, 7
on Sundays).

Sorry but the allocation with First was 19 M-F, 18 Sat and 14 Sun. *The
info I have seen for Metroline is 19 MF, 19 Sat and 17 Sun so the scale
of increase is smaller that you've stated with none on MF.

I think the change may also have to do with congestion in the bus
station. Stop E at Euston is not in the best spot for services heading
south down Southampton Row, as the buses have to cross the buses
heading towards King's Cross. I think that it got especially bad after
the 59 was extended to King's Cross, as that was an extra route
getting in the way at the bus station.

I really don't think it is you know. I think it's about trying to
squeeze more service out of a given number of vehicles. It's the
explanation I've seen on another group given by someone who I know works
for London Buses.


I think that a lot of the delays at the bus station are caused by the
stop arrangements (although with the 68 starting from Euston, it is
hard to see how to move things around and still keep all the buses
heading towards Holborn at the same stop). I think the point that I
was trying to make is that serving the bus station heading from King's
Cross to the south puts a long delay in, as it has to loop the loop to
serve the stop and get mixed in with the routes heading the other way.
This delay has been solved by just making a left turn into Upper
Woburn Place. Heading the other way, there is no right turn out of
Upper Woburn Place, so the route might as well use the bus station.

I've noticed quite a thinning out of services that use the bus station
in the south or west bound direction over the years. I think partly
down to the bendy buses (73 used to come in) and partly due to more
frequent services on the remaining routes. Did the 168 ever serve the
bus station, or did it always stay on Eversholt Street?

The 73 still comes in heading east. I cannot recall it ever serving the
bus station heading west in all the years I've been in London. *The only
westbound route that served Euston Bus Station in recent years was the
205 but that was booted out to the Euston Road. *Similarly it did a huge
loop at Kings Cross but that was ostensibly stopped due to the road
works in connection with CTRL. Now they're finished I've seen no moves
to restore the loop working on w/b trips.


The 91 also still calls heading north to east. I don't think anything
heads west into Euston now, which is inconvenient if you want to use
the bus from Liverpool Street / King's Cross direction to Euston
station, it is quite slow to cross Euston Road and get into the
National Rail area.

I thought the 168 served the bus station heading south but has never
done so heading north but I could be completely wrong. Not a route I use
very much.

No, it was also removed (and is the only route to Holborn that doesn't
enter) and calls in Eversholt Street instead, therefore I only use it
heading to Euston, not from (I occasionally use the bus Euston to
Holborn and v.v. if it is raining or London Midland are late; normally
I would walk).

On Feb 25, 9:50*pm, wrote:
On Feb 25, 9:29*pm, Paul Corfield wrote:





On Wed, 25 Feb 2009 12:37:59 -0800 (PST), wrote:
On Feb 25, 6:25*pm, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Tue, 24 Feb 2009 23:51:59 +0000, Barry Salter

wrote:
Neil Williams wrote:
Does anyone know why the 91 (southbound) was taken out of Euston bus
station? *Did it manage to save a vehicle by doing so? *If not, it
seems it could be a cause of unnecessary passenger confusion.

I understand an additional peak journey can operate in the peak
direction as a result of the change.

It coincided with a change of operator from First to Metroline
(operating out of Holloway garage) with an allocation of 19 vehicles,
and actually represents an *increase* of 4 vehicles (5 on Saturdays, 7
on Sundays).

Sorry but the allocation with First was 19 M-F, 18 Sat and 14 Sun. *The
info I have seen for Metroline is 19 MF, 19 Sat and 17 Sun so the scale
of increase is smaller that you've stated with none on MF.

I think the change may also have to do with congestion in the bus
station. Stop E at Euston is not in the best spot for services heading
south down Southampton Row, as the buses have to cross the buses
heading towards King's Cross. I think that it got especially bad after
the 59 was extended to King's Cross, as that was an extra route
getting in the way at the bus station.

I really don't think it is you know. I think it's about trying to
squeeze more service out of a given number of vehicles. It's the
explanation I've seen on another group given by someone who I know works
for London Buses.

I think that a lot of the delays at the bus station are caused by the
stop arrangements (although with the 68 starting from Euston, it is
hard to see how to move things around and still keep all the buses
heading towards Holborn at the same stop). I think the point that I
was trying to make is that serving the bus station heading from King's
Cross to the south puts a long delay in, as it has to loop the loop to
serve the stop and get mixed in with the routes heading the other way.
This delay has been solved by just making a left turn into Upper
Woburn Place. Heading the other way, there is no right turn out of
Upper Woburn Place, so the route might as well use the bus station.

I've noticed quite a thinning out of services that use the bus station
in the south or west bound direction over the years. I think partly
down to the bendy buses (73 used to come in) and partly due to more
frequent services on the remaining routes. Did the 168 ever serve the
bus station, or did it always stay on Eversholt Street?

The 73 still comes in heading east. I cannot recall it ever serving the
bus station heading west in all the years I've been in London. *The only
westbound route that served Euston Bus Station in recent years was the
205 but that was booted out to the Euston Road. *Similarly it did a huge
loop at Kings Cross but that was ostensibly stopped due to the road
works in connection with CTRL. Now they're finished I've seen no moves
to restore the loop working on w/b trips.

The 91 also still calls heading north to east. I don't think anything
heads west into Euston now, which is inconvenient if you want to use
the bus from Liverpool Street / King's Cross direction to Euston
station, it is quite slow to cross Euston Road and get into the
National Rail area.

Not so sure about that.

A couple of times I've missed trains because I didn't get off at the
top of Upper Woburn Place and sat in the bus waiting for it to get
into the bus station and then had to walk back to Eversholt Street
because they've removed the crossing and it's barriered. I am pretty
sure it would have been quicker on foot from Upper Woburn Place.

On Feb 25, 9:18*pm, (Neil Williams)
wrote:
On Wed, 25 Feb 2009 12:37:59 -0800 (PST), wrote:
I think the change may also have to do with congestion in the bus
station. Stop E at Euston is not in the best spot for services heading
south down Southampton Row, as the buses have to cross the buses
heading towards King's Cross. I think that it got especially bad after
the 59 was extended to King's Cross, as that was an extra route
getting in the way at the bus station.

The problem with the bus station is that the road where the 59 and 68
stop isn't wide enough for a bus to reach the stop if the ones waiting
haven't pulled right over. *The kerb and stop could do with taking
back about 3'. *That alone would improve flow massively.


And part of the reason for the buses not pulling right over if that
they only have a short distance after pulling off to get into the
right hand lane (often past a King's Cross bus in the left hand lane).
Things would be easier if the King's Cross buses used stop E and the
Holborn buses used the stops further from the lights.

On Feb 25, 11:13*pm, MIG wrote:
On Feb 25, 9:50*pm, wrote:





On Feb 25, 9:29*pm, Paul Corfield wrote:

On Wed, 25 Feb 2009 12:37:59 -0800 (PST), wrote:
On Feb 25, 6:25*pm, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Tue, 24 Feb 2009 23:51:59 +0000, Barry Salter

wrote:
Neil Williams wrote:
Does anyone know why the 91 (southbound) was taken out of Euston bus
station? *Did it manage to save a vehicle by doing so? *If not, it
seems it could be a cause of unnecessary passenger confusion.

I understand an additional peak journey can operate in the peak
direction as a result of the change.

It coincided with a change of operator from First to Metroline
(operating out of Holloway garage) with an allocation of 19 vehicles,
and actually represents an *increase* of 4 vehicles (5 on Saturdays, 7
on Sundays).

Sorry but the allocation with First was 19 M-F, 18 Sat and 14 Sun. *The
info I have seen for Metroline is 19 MF, 19 Sat and 17 Sun so the scale
of increase is smaller that you've stated with none on MF.

I think the change may also have to do with congestion in the bus
station. Stop E at Euston is not in the best spot for services heading
south down Southampton Row, as the buses have to cross the buses
heading towards King's Cross. I think that it got especially bad after
the 59 was extended to King's Cross, as that was an extra route
getting in the way at the bus station.

I really don't think it is you know. I think it's about trying to
squeeze more service out of a given number of vehicles. It's the
explanation I've seen on another group given by someone who I know works
for London Buses.

I think that a lot of the delays at the bus station are caused by the
stop arrangements (although with the 68 starting from Euston, it is
hard to see how to move things around and still keep all the buses
heading towards Holborn at the same stop). I think the point that I
was trying to make is that serving the bus station heading from King's
Cross to the south puts a long delay in, as it has to loop the loop to
serve the stop and get mixed in with the routes heading the other way.
This delay has been solved by just making a left turn into Upper
Woburn Place. Heading the other way, there is no right turn out of
Upper Woburn Place, so the route might as well use the bus station.

I've noticed quite a thinning out of services that use the bus station
in the south or west bound direction over the years. I think partly
down to the bendy buses (73 used to come in) and partly due to more
frequent services on the remaining routes. Did the 168 ever serve the
bus station, or did it always stay on Eversholt Street?

The 73 still comes in heading east. I cannot recall it ever serving the
bus station heading west in all the years I've been in London. *The only
westbound route that served Euston Bus Station in recent years was the
205 but that was booted out to the Euston Road. *Similarly it did a huge
loop at Kings Cross but that was ostensibly stopped due to the road
works in connection with CTRL. Now they're finished I've seen no moves
to restore the loop working on w/b trips.

The 91 also still calls heading north to east. I don't think anything
heads west into Euston now, which is inconvenient if you want to use
the bus from Liverpool Street / King's Cross direction to Euston
station, it is quite slow to cross Euston Road and get into the
National Rail area.

Not so sure about that.

A couple of times I've missed trains because I didn't get off at the
top of Upper Woburn Place and sat in the bus waiting for it to get
into the bus station and then had to walk back to Eversholt Street
because they've removed the crossing and it's barriered. *I am pretty
sure it would have been quicker on foot from Upper Woburn Place.

Ahh, I've never been delayed in that way (coming from Holborn) I seem
to be on buses that stop on the NR side of the bus station (or on the
168). From a bus stop on the Euston Road, it always takes me longer to
get into the station than from the time taken from a bus coming into
the bus station from Upper Woburn Place.