In message , at 21:02:55 on
Mon, 9 Mar 2009, pedan3 remarked:
I bow to the superior knowledge of almost everybody here, but this
sounds very much like the situation that got me into so much trouble
on the way to Bedford. See my post of 4th March, in the thread
"Reading Display" of early December.

I don't think I'll be taking any more boundary zone 6 tickets to
anywhere. The way I was treated by the inspectors was terrible and,
had I been impoverished, would have left me stranded in Bedford with
no way back or means of travel in London when I got back. Not to
mention the impending prosecution.

That wasn't anything to do with BZ6 tickets. Quite the reverse. It was
about the ticket you were *extending* (in your case a Freedom Pass).

I agree that it's petty for EMT to fail to accept them.

The equivalent test for extending a Travelcard, is discovering if any
ToCs don't accept them. I think the answer is "only GatEx are that
petty", but maybe others can confirm.
--
Roland Perry

On Mon, 09 Mar 2009 21:02:55 +0000, pedan3 wrote:

Not to
mention the impending prosecution.

They surely aren't actually prosecuting, are they?

Might be a good case for a local press reporter to get involved in to
encourage them to drop any charges, given the sort of publicity it
would result in?

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

On Mon, 9 Mar 2009 21:22:08 +0000, Roland Perry
wrote:

The equivalent test for extending a Travelcard, is discovering if any
ToCs don't accept them. I think the answer is "only GatEx are that
petty", but maybe others can confirm.

Careful - I am almost certain that BZ6 tickets are *not* valid on
Virgin trains. I suspect this extends to other IC TOCs as well. It's
to do with different accounting - an outboundary MKC to R1256 is
priced based on the idea that most people will do MKC-EUS on Virgin
then just use the Travelcard around London, whereas in the other
direction it can't work like that because the Travelcard is already
purchased.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

On Mon, 09 Mar 2009 23:21:19 GMT, (Neil
Williams) wrote:

On Mon, 09 Mar 2009 21:02:55 +0000, pedan3 wrote:

Not to
mention the impending prosecution.

They surely aren't actually prosecuting, are they?

The case, not to mention my Freedom Pass, is with their prosecutions
department. I have written to their chief executive and to my MP, but
no replies from anybody as yet.

You can imagine the worry this causes, though.

Lest I should be accused of further duplicity, I will make it clear
that I was able to get a replacement Freedom Pass from the Post
Office.


Might be a good case for a local press reporter to get involved in to
encourage them to drop any charges, given the sort of publicity it
would result in?

Neil

In message , at 23:23:04 on Mon,
9 Mar 2009, Neil Williams remarked:
The equivalent test for extending a Travelcard, is discovering if any
ToCs don't accept them. I think the answer is "only GatEx are that
petty", but maybe others can confirm.

Careful - I am almost certain that BZ6 tickets are *not* valid on
Virgin trains. I suspect this extends to other IC TOCs as well.

This could be the case (it would be consistent with the general level of
confusion pricing in the industry), but do you have a cite?
--
Roland Perry

On 9 Mar, 23:23, (Neil Williams) wrote:
On Mon, 9 Mar 2009 21:22:08 +0000, Roland Perry
wrote:

The equivalent test for extending a Travelcard, is discovering if any
ToCs don't accept them. I think the answer is "only GatEx are that
petty", but maybe others can confirm.

Careful - I am almost certain that BZ6 tickets are *not* valid on
Virgin trains. *I suspect this extends to other IC TOCs as well. *It's
to do with different accounting - an outboundary MKC to R1256 is
priced based on the idea that most people will do MKC-EUS on Virgin
then just use the Travelcard around London, whereas in the other
direction it can't work like that because the Travelcard is already
purchased.


Hmm, I don't think that they can refuse them (they are not LM only
tickets and I havn't seen one marked not Virgin West Coast Trains).
Just because the ticket comes under a different calculation for fare
revenue, it doesn't mean that Virgin won't get their share, this is
why the tickets are issued from Boundary Zone 6 and not from Hatch
End, this allowing similar revenue allocation to a London fare.
Remember that revenue is shared based on the number of trains that can
be used for a journey, so LM will always get the bulk of MKC - London
fares, as the stopping services count as equally as the fasts; from
last month, Southern will also be getting a share of the travelcard
revenue as well.

The old FGW (the Inter-City only bit before the merger) certainly
allowed use to Reading / Didcot etc, as did Cross-Country (FGW still
do, XC, of course, no longer run through the zones).

wrote:
On 9 Mar, 23:23, (Neil Williams) wrote:
On Mon, 9 Mar 2009 21:22:08 +0000, Roland Perry
wrote:

The equivalent test for extending a Travelcard, is discovering if any
ToCs don't accept them. I think the answer is "only GatEx are that
petty", but maybe others can confirm.
Careful - I am almost certain that BZ6 tickets are *not* valid on
Virgin trains. I suspect this extends to other IC TOCs as well. It's
to do with different accounting - an outboundary MKC to R1256 is
priced based on the idea that most people will do MKC-EUS on Virgin
then just use the Travelcard around London, whereas in the other
direction it can't work like that because the Travelcard is already
purchased.


I am no expert - does the following help?
The Freedom Pass site makes the following statement.
Quote
The freedom pass is NOT valid for travel on train services operated by
Arriva CrossCountry, Grand Central, Hull Trains, East Midlands Trains,
Gatwick Express, National Express East Coast, Virgin Trains and Heathrow
Express, or on Heathrow Connect between Hayes & Harlington and Heathrow.
Unquote
I think that this rule is identical to the one that at least used to be
applied to travelcards. The Heathrow branch is a special case, but non
of the others allow a complete journey within the London Zones and
therefore cannot be used for travel with a London Zones only ticket.

Mike R

On 10 Mar, 12:52, Mike Roberts wrote:
wrote:
On 9 Mar, 23:23, (Neil Williams) wrote:
On Mon, 9 Mar 2009 21:22:08 +0000, Roland Perry
wrote:

The equivalent test for extending a Travelcard, is discovering if any
ToCs don't accept them. I think the answer is "only GatEx are that
petty", but maybe others can confirm.
Careful - I am almost certain that BZ6 tickets are *not* valid on
Virgin trains. *I suspect this extends to other IC TOCs as well. *It's
to do with different accounting - an outboundary MKC to R1256 is
priced based on the idea that most people will do MKC-EUS on Virgin
then just use the Travelcard around London, whereas in the other
direction it can't work like that because the Travelcard is already
purchased.

* I am no expert - does the following help?
The Freedom Pass site makes the following statement.
Quote
The freedom pass is NOT valid for travel on train services operated by
Arriva CrossCountry, Grand Central, Hull Trains, East Midlands Trains,
Gatwick Express, National Express East Coast, Virgin Trains and Heathrow
Express, or on Heathrow Connect between Hayes & Harlington and Heathrow.
Unquote
I think that this rule is identical to the one that at least used to be
applied to travelcards. The Heathrow branch is a special case, but non
of the others allow a complete journey within the London Zones and
therefore cannot be used for travel with a London Zones only ticket.


But out of boundary travel cards are available on NXEC, EMT and Virgin
(at a higher price for NXEC and Virgin as the ex Network South East
operators on these lines have tickets valid for their own services
only). The question isn't whether a travelcard can be used on its own,
but whether it can be used in conjuction with a Boundary Zone X -
wherever ticket. I've certainly used these for BZ6 - Peterborough (on
NXEC) and BZ6 - Milton Keynes (on Virgin), I think I've done BZ6 -
Bedford as well, but that would have been a while ago. The rules for
Freedom Passes are different, as they are a local authority based
product, not a National Rail / TfL based one.

In message , at 12:52:34 on
Tue, 10 Mar 2009, Mike Roberts remarked:
Careful - I am almost certain that BZ6 tickets are *not* valid on
Virgin trains.

I am no expert - does the following help?
The Freedom Pass site makes the following statement.
Quote
The freedom pass is NOT valid for travel on train services operated by
Arriva CrossCountry, Grand Central, Hull Trains, East Midlands Trains,
Gatwick Express, National Express East Coast, Virgin Trains and
Heathrow Express, or on Heathrow Connect between Hayes & Harlington and
Heathrow.

I think that this rule is identical to the one that at least used to be
applied to travelcards.

You can get a Travelcard from EMT for stations Kettering and further
south, so they aren't a "travelcard free zone".
--
Roland Perry

On Tue, 10 Mar 2009 10:06:32 +0000, Roland Perry
wrote:

This could be the case (it would be consistent with the general level of
confusion pricing in the industry), but do you have a cite?

Unfortunately not, and the NFM is of course no longer online.

I might well be wrong, but I'm pretty sure I read it somewhere.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.