John Rowland wrote:
I was just looking at
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/proj...aces/2259.aspx
and I noticed that Natal Road, which usefully gets you right up to the
Brownlow Rd/A406 junction without experiencing any traffic jams when both of
those roads are utterly clogged, is going to have a forced left turn to
Bowes Road, making it useless. I also notice that they are banning the left
turn from the NCR to Melville Gardens, which is currently a very handy
escape route when the A406 here is clogged (which is most of the time).

That's not a new plan, it's been knocking around for years. Enfield
Council are also making the side roads between Melville Gardens and
Wolves Lane one way to match the ones in neighbouring Haringey. The 2
roads nearest the NCR will be one way in the opposite direction to the NCR.

As nice as am sure it is for drivers to cut through off Melville Gardens
and through from there it can be a pain for those of us living around there

Stuart wrote:

As nice as am sure it is for drivers to cut through off Melville
Gardens and through from there it can be a pain for those of us
living around there

If they fixed the main junctions, Melville Gardens could be left open for
the people who live there and also as an escape route for rare occasions
when the NCR screws up, without it being the 24/7 rat run it is now. It is
noticeable that the traffic jam always ends at exactly Melville Gardens
because it acts like an overflow hole in a sink. Blocking Melville will
cause the jam to reach back to the Cambridge, and Pasteur Gardens will then
be the overflow, bothering more people than now.

On 11 Mar, 09:50, Tom Barry wrote:
Barry Salter wrote:

What is *needed* for that stretch of the A406 is a much more substantial
upgrade to bring it in line with the rest of the road, but of course
that ain't gonna happen because that would actually be *useful*.

Useful being shorthand for 'hugely expensive, disruptive,
environmentally damaging and a throwback to the failed ideas of the
1960s when people thought urban motorways were a good idea'.

Tom

"Failed" - sorry, I didn't catch your reason why you think they've
failed?

East London with it's A12, A406 and A13 is way easier to traverse than
any other part of London. If you've ever lived in central London (zone
1) and tried to escape London by car, you'll know that you REALLY
appreciate these "failed" roads. And before you ask why I would be
using a car, have you ever tried to get to remote parts of the country
without a car?

Living in South London with its failed public transport and its
failed, inadequate road system and its failed connectivity with the
rest of the country, I would very much like one of these "hideous",
"disruptive", "environmentally damaging" and "useless" roads to help
me carve my way through areas of FAILED infrastructure planning.

It's about time that NIMBYs stopped preventing progress and causing
the rest of the Londoners to actually be able to do the business they
plan to do, rather than having their time wasted by congestion (on the
roads / rails or otherwise).

On Wed, 11 Mar 2009, wrote:

On 11 Mar, 09:50, Tom Barry wrote:
Barry Salter wrote:

What is *needed* for that stretch of the A406 is a much more
substantial upgrade to bring it in line with the rest of the road, but
of course that ain't gonna happen because that would actually be
*useful*.

Useful being shorthand for 'hugely expensive, disruptive,
environmentally damaging and a throwback to the failed ideas of the
1960s when people thought urban motorways were a good idea'.

"Failed" - sorry, I didn't catch your reason why you think they've
failed?

East London with it's A12, A406 and A13 is way easier to traverse than
any other part of London.

And is vile, in large part because it's been dismembered by tarmac.

If you've ever lived in central London (zone
1) and tried to escape London by car,

Then you're mental. What's your point?

you'll know that you REALLY appreciate these "failed" roads. And before
you ask why I would be using a car, have you ever tried to get to remote
parts of the country without a car?

Yes, frequently and successfully.

Living in South London with its failed public transport and its failed,
inadequate road system and its failed connectivity with the rest of the
country, I would very much like one of these "hideous", "disruptive",
"environmentally damaging" and "useless" roads to help me carve my way
through areas of FAILED infrastructure planning.

It's about time that NIMBYs stopped preventing progress and causing the
rest of the Londoners to actually be able to do the business they plan
to do, rather than having their time wasted by congestion (on the roads
/ rails or otherwise).

Well put: you want mighty roads driven through *other* people's
neighbourhoods for *your* benefit.

tom

--
Gin makes a man mean; let's booze up and riot!

John Rowland wrote:

If they fixed the main junctions, Melville Gardens could be left open for
the people who live there and also as an escape route for rare occasions
when the NCR screws up, without it being the 24/7 rat run it is now.

That is true, the whole thing is a much bigger problem.

I've long thought that the cheapest and least disruptive way to sort the
bottleneck would be to build a flyover (I'm thinking more Chiswick than
Westway) from just after Green Lanes to New Southgate. Put all the
through traffic (or one direction) on that.


It is noticeable that the traffic jam always ends at exactly Melville Gardens
because it acts like an overflow hole in a sink. Blocking Melville will
cause the jam to reach back to the Cambridge, and Pasteur Gardens will then
be the overflow, bothering more people than now.

Often it goe back a lot further than that, weekends for example

"Bumping" an old thread . . .

I regularly use the A406 and consequently have to divert to avoid the Palmers Green/New Southgate traffic jams. At certain times of day going westbound through the area is feasible. Eastbound is never sensible before mid evening.

The current "improvement" scheme is completely inappropriate and may even make things worse. Certainly preventing exits into Melville Gardens and Evesham Road will compel more drivers to sit in the traffic jams and make them bigger. Allowing left turns from Wilmer Way onto Bowes Road will necessitate re-phasing the traffic lights . . . and most alert drivers know what happens when TfL mess about with traffic lights.

The only major benefit I foresee from this scheme is that the left turn from Bowes Road onto Telford Road will at last be two lanes wide. This will undoubtedly reduce the westbound tailback from this junction although it is rumoured that TfL plan to install completely unnecessary new traffic lights at the junction of Bowes Road and Warwick Road which will re-introduce the queuing!

As others have posted, the real requirement here is a major improvement scheme which takes the A406 under the junctions and allows the traffic to flow without interruptions. That will not happen until at long last London gets a mayor who takes transport seriously and is not just out to indulge his prejudices.

Another questionable aspect of the current silly scheme is the extraordinary amount of time it is taking. There is no major civil engineering involved. Why is is taking so long? When is it due to be completed?

They have now blocked the left turn from the A406 into Melville Gardens. It is still possible to drive from Melville Gardens onto the A406. The other day I saw a few very determined motorists make complicated nine-point turns into Melville Gardens to escape from the traffic jam. I was not offended by their irreverence. I admired their bravado.

The cheapest and least disruptive way to sort the bottleneck was the one planned by the Department of Transport in the good old days before we had TfL. That plan was to divert the A406 from Bowes Road across the recreation ground behind the row of shops on the north side of the road and then curve back again into Telford Road.

I'm quite sure that eventually London will have a sensible, responsible Mayor who recognises that London's roads have to function properly and who will consequently make sure that this section of the A406 is improved accordingly. How long we have to wait for that sensible, responsible Mayor is anyone's guess.

I tried using the Natal Road escape route this afternoon and it is currently completely blocked at the junction with Bowes Road. I didn't examine what was going on but most likely they are now carrying out that piece of sabotage you described.

UPDATE: I drove past there last night and was amazed to see that Natal Road has been re-opened at its junction with the A406 Bowes Road.